close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

What spring do you recommend

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by dsb1829, May 23, 2012.

  1. dsb1829

    dsb1829

    103
    0
    Nov 2, 2011
    I have found my G20 likes full book loads. Unfortunately it will occasionally munch a case on ejection and sometimes locks the slide back with 1rd left. I have seen the dinged/dented in case mouth with some overcharged DT ammo, but the locking open early is new. And no it isn't my thumb (I ran it a couple mags with a low grip and duplicated the issue). That may be a mag issue (2 of my mags do lift the slide rel with a round in them).

    At any rate, what rate ISMI would you recommend using with 11g of Bluedot under a 180g XTP? For the record I had no issues with the Shadow's 10.4g fave load and the stock spring. But it isn't as accurate as the hot load.
     
  2. WeeWilly

    WeeWilly

    4,733
    1,165
    Nov 12, 2011
    Idaho
    I bought a 22lb RSA (factory style flat spring with a SS guide rod) from Glockmeister and it has worked flawlessly. I shoot 11.0grs of BD as my standard BD load under 180gr HAP's. The gun cycles flawlessly with this setup, but then it also cycles flawlessly with my factory stock RSA, so I don't think it is a required upgrade.
     

  3. Yondering

    Yondering

    564
    2
    Dec 3, 2011
    I don't know about the glockmeister springs, but if you get one of the flat wound ISMI springs, you may as well get the stiffest you can find (22 or 24 lb) because they are rated way stiffer than they really are. Even their 24 lb springs are only a couple pounds stiffer than stock.
     
  4. LASTRESORT20

    LASTRESORT20 LongTerm-Guy

    19,273
    27,492
    Aug 10, 2010
    NC

    This ^^^...
     
  5. dm1906

    dm1906 Retired SO

    428
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    PRK (Kalifornia)
    11 gr. BD under a 180 is full book load (Alliant), and my favorite for targets. With the OEM spring, I get dinged cases and a lot of them in the neighbor's yard (1/4 mile away, so I'm exaggerating a bit, but those are probably not the dinged ones). An ISMI 20#'er with steel rod tames down the catapult, and almost all brass ejects clean (no dings). No FTF/FTE's, either. I also have no issues using the 20# with OTC 10mm or .40 loads. While the OEM spring (17#) is adequate, effective and reliable, moving up a bit will save some brass (and narrow your search grid), and perhaps save some wear on the frame. The offset is recoil. Heavier springs keep the action in battery longer, so felt recoil may increase (it's very minor from 17 to 20). How much, if any, depends on many factors. It may help improve accuracy, if that's an objective for you.
     
  6. TDC20

    TDC20

    1,013
    286
    Apr 11, 2011
    I have a Wolff 22# uncaptured spring and guide rod, bought as a set because they're less expensive that way. I have used it for everything from hot 10mm loads down to my .40S&W conversion barrel without any problems. The .40 cases don't go very far, 3 or 4 feet Hot 10mm loads fling brass 10-15 ft.

    I have enough confidence in the reliability of this spring that I CCW my G20 with it most of the time. It does make the perceived recoil a little more than the stock RSA, but it's not bad, just noticeable. Those who shoot competitions claim that a heavy spring slows down follow-up shots, and I believe they may be correct. That's why it's important to practice enough so that you always hit with the first shot. :cool:
     
  7. arushus

    arushus Biggest Member

    2,541
    1
    Jul 22, 2011
    NE Oklahoma
    For ISMI, I would go with the 24lb, I've got a 22lb ISMI and it isn't much stiffer than stock.
     
  8. dm1906

    dm1906 Retired SO

    428
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    PRK (Kalifornia)
    I don't think I would recommend a 24# spring for the OP's situation. I did a test on some rounds about 2 months ago (new brass lot), 180 gr TMJ, 11 gr BD and CCI 300, were at 1280 FPS. through a 5.2" LWD barrel. I consider this a modest "full power" load, but not above that. Unless one wanted to push into the FULL "full power" realm or more, a 20# spring is enough. I have a 24# ISMI spring, and it is very stout compared to a 20. The 11 gr loads shoot fine, but felt recoil is noticeably increased (as is muzzle flip), and brass ejects about 1/2 the distant (although very consistent and clean). .40's just dribble out and fall at my feet, but they do, so far. An OEM barrel could, theoretically, exaggerate any of the above. I SD carry with a 20# spring, but wouldn't with the 24#. One light load (for whatever reason) may ruin your day, or worse.

    Also, the collection of ISMI flat springs I have all test to advertised weight within the MOE of my scale (all properly installed on SS LWD rods). My 20 and 24 springs (among others) have retained their weight with no detectable degradation for thousands of rounds. The OEM spring, on the other hand, has gone on a diet and lost a pound with less rounds behind it. It measured 17.25# new, but is only about 16# now. Still works fine with OTC rounds, though.
     
  9. Yondering

    Yondering

    564
    2
    Dec 3, 2011
    Either your springs or your scale are very different from mine then. I've tested ISMI 20, 22, and three different 24# springs, all on a calibrated electronic spring tester, on LW stainless captured rods, over the range of travel measured on my G21. The 20 was approximately equal to the stock spring, and the 24's were only a few pounds heavier. I even talked to the ISMI guy about it; his only explanation was that actual rating numbers didn't matter, they just indicate that one is heavier than another. :dunno: All of the ISMI springs between 17 and 22 lb are the same spring BTW, just stretched out to different free lengths, meaning when installed some have a higher preload, but they all have the same spring rate. (1911 springs are the opposite, approximately the same "in battery" force, but different spring rates.) The 24 lb spring has a few extra coils.

    I now use a 24# ISMI spring for everything, in my 10mm solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. It cycles mild 40 S&W just fine, and everything hotter than that, up to nuclear loads. I can't see any reason to use a lighter spring. If any combination would give trouble with light loads and a heavy spring, a heavy slide and muzzle brake should be the worst.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  10. dpadams6

    dpadams6

    1,771
    164
    Jan 5, 2010
    I have a wolff 21lb rsa for my 29 and a wolff 22lb rsa for my 20. Everytime i shoot those springs with hot underwood 135/165 ammo, i ALWAYS have at least 1 ftf out of 50 rounds. Change to the stock rsa, and never a problem. For CCW, i will never trust aftermarket rsa again....
     
  11. glock20fanboy

    glock20fanboy

    74
    0
    Jan 29, 2012
    I run 21# assemblies in both my 29SF and 20SF and have never had one problem. I have shot them well over 500 rounds each.
     
  12. chemboy

    chemboy

    1,042
    119
    Jun 9, 2004
    Idaho
    I went with an ISMI 20# spring for my G20, and it does help as far as brass recovery goes. Hot Underwood stuff now travels about 1/2 the distance that it would with the stock RSA. The new RSA has 550 rds on it, and no problems thus far.
    Of course, this is my first aftermarket RSA I have ever used in a Glock, so take it for what it's worth.
     
  13. dm1906

    dm1906 Retired SO

    428
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    PRK (Kalifornia)
    I'm a benchmark freak, so I tested them, as I did the original spring before a single round went through. If yours are light, use a shim, or the plastic bushing that came with the rod to increase the preload a bit. Mine are installed with the bushing.

    A heavier slide will slow the action, not similar to a heavier spring. A muzzle brake has the opposite affect. Dynamic masses, as opposing forces. Once out of battery, the barrel is locked to the frame, and your hand. A heavier spring allows for more force to transfer to the barrel/frame earlier in motion, as opposed later in compression, or when it hits the stop/buffer. The amount of force never changes. We can only change the timing.
     
  14. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    4,206
    101
    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS
    100% correct.
     
  15. dpadams6

    dpadams6

    1,771
    164
    Jan 5, 2010
    What brand springs are you using? This is so frustrating as i want to carry the 29 but want utter reliability and just don't feel it yet because of the few ftf. My 19,22,23,31,32,33 never had a problem with anything i put thru them....
     
  16. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    4,206
    101
    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS
    Honestly, the stock RSA is just fine with all Glock models if you ask me, even for the hot stuff.
     
  17. glock20fanboy

    glock20fanboy

    74
    0
    Jan 29, 2012
    In my 20SF I have a 21# Brass Stacker captured-recoil spring setup. In the 29SF I have a Wolff Gunsprings uncaptured 21# setup. They both have been flawless. Understand, though, in the 29SF the setup makes it very difficult to rack the slide for the first round.
     
  18. Yondering

    Yondering

    564
    2
    Dec 3, 2011
    I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't claim a heavy spring and heavy slide do the same thing. I said if a glock was going to malfunction strictly due to light loads, the heavy spring, heavy slide, and muzzle brake combo would be the worst offender.

    Also, "a muzzle brake has the opposite effect" compared to what? It's certainly not opposite of a heavy spring. A muzzle brake slows down the unlocking, and reduces slide velocity in the rearward direction.

    If you measured your springs accurately, and your numbers are correct, then ISMI is/has changed their springs at some point. I sent my 24 lb springs back to LW twice, their armorer tested them and agreed they weren't 24lb springs, and they replaced them, but the replacements were the same. They are stiffer than stock, but not by as much as the numbers indicate, and not enough to cause any malfunctions.
     
  19. Yondering

    Yondering

    564
    2
    Dec 3, 2011
    I'm not sure, but are you trying to say here that a heavier spring does not delay unlocking? This is true in 1911's, but not in Glocks. If you've really measured your Glock springs, and looked at the plots and thought about what's going on, you should know better.
     
  20. dm1906

    dm1906 Retired SO

    428
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    PRK (Kalifornia)
    "Not similar", as in, not for the same reason. The effects later in the action depart very quickly, and vastly.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2012