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What makes a quality rifle?/Is my rifle "good enough?" (merged threads)

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by surf, Feb 19, 2011.

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  1. G19g4

    G19g4 NREMT-Paramedic

    Aug 15, 2010
    Solid rifles do tend to cost more. Attachments as well. I outfit my rifle for it's intended purpose, for example, hunting, home defense, and sport shooting.
    Anything extra is just more weight.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  2. rootbrain

    rootbrain Mayan Priest

    Dec 6, 2012
    Colorado, USA
    This +1. Very good point, regardless of what you bought or are considering. Unfortunately with the panic, not only are people way over paying for the good stuff, there getting raped on the crappy stuff.

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012

  3. Durden


    Oct 5, 2010

    Kiss It Simple method has never let me down.

    I see so many people add unnecessary expense, weight & complications (things that can go wrong/break) to anything the own or use, including firearms, that it baffles the mind.

    I even ditched any optics on my ARs, deciding that iron sights were best for me.
  4. phonejack


    Jun 28, 2009
    About 10-12 years ago a gun writer named Jacob Gottfriedson wrote an article for "Tactical Shooter" entitled "What it's Good For? ". And I realized that I had numerous rifles that were only good for shooting at black bullseyes on white backgrounds on known distance ranges. I sold all of them. (Shooting on a manicured range does not make one a rifleman) just sayin'
  5. rootbrain

    rootbrain Mayan Priest

    Dec 6, 2012
    Colorado, USA
    My .02 as a new site user and new to AR's.

    Not new to guns, I own XD 9mm for CC, Marlin 336 30-30 for deer and Rem 870 primarily for HD, but use it for bird hunting as well.

    I've been thinking about getting AR-15 since 2004 when the ban ended, but just kept putting it off. Finally made the decision and got one. My choice, Colt 6920 was made for several reasons, and after extensive "lurking" on different gun forums, including this one. Will list my reasons at the end, FWIW.

    I tried as best I could to avoid manufacturer specific sites (i.e.,, :embarassed:) because of the inherent prejudice towards a certain AR. Instead, I use sites like Glock Talk. Why? Well, because you, and they are focused on other manufacturers and platforms, but have a good user base and forums specific to the platform of interest to me (AR-15), I was able to get information based on actual user experience, with less prejudice towards a certain manufacturer.

    Because of this site, and other like it, I feel I've made the right choice for me. My reasons:

    1. I don't want to assemble parts and build my own.
    2. Doesn't matter if I could have one cheaper, I can afford what I got, the extra $100-300 I spent is a non-issue.
    3. I don't want to have to try to find pre-ban vs post-ban rifle/carbine due to possible temporary quality control issues (ref. Bushmaster carrier key staking issue, temporary and only on some).
    4. I wanted a carbine from a company that has history, not from someone that saw profit to be made a few years back and forming a "gun company" to realize that profit on a single, popular format.

    Anyway, I would like to express thanks to gurus and novices alike here (and other places) for helping me make my decision. I'm happy with it, and will continue to read, learn and try on my new platform.

    I will post, when I think that I have something that might help, but I am by no means an expert (although I did use and qualify with M16 many years ago - Regular Army!) I'm just getting back to it.

    Anything I post is more likely to be something that somebody somewhere said they heard or saw on YouTube, or tried with success, but not completely, but maybe.

    Feel free to correct, chastise, teach or inform me as you will.

  6. glockfanbob


    Aug 27, 2006
    Thanks for the great post. Definitely helped clear some things up for me. Count me down as another vote for this as a sticky!
  7. shadow_dog

    shadow_dog Hilljack

    Mar 6, 2004
    SW Ohio
    Here goes, I'll put in my 2 cents worth. 53 years old, no combat experience, shooting since I was 8 years old. Taught to shoot by a WWII combat vet, my dad. I have put untold thousands of rds downrange and into things both alive and inert. Let the flaming begin.

    Tiers? I don't care about "tiers" or classifications. If I have any unresolvable issues out of a weapon, or it tends to be problematic during use, it stays in the safe for any issue that may require self defence. I have had several different weapons of all brands over my lifetime. I have had builds of what people may call "questionable" quality run better than so called upper tier weapons and vice versa. IMO, it comes down to knowing your weapon and its issues if any during/over periods of use.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  8. nostalgiaguy


    Apr 24, 2012
    Lenoir NC
    Great post. But with the cost of todays ammo , I am only training now with rifles made by daisy or crossman. LOL
  9. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

    Oct 23, 2000
    California & New Mexico, US
    So, those Marines and Army soldiers who compete at Wimbledon, by your definitions are not "riflemen" then?

    You tactical people are just too much.:rofl:
  10. TedG

    TedG Infidel USA


    Absolutely. Don't get caught up in the if it isn't a (enter brand name here) then it isn't a real AR fanboy game. A lot of people are just trying to justify their own personal expensive purchase.
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  11. AquaHull


    Nov 11, 2011
    West MI
    I'm a little late to the party as usual. Having already passed on an "Oracle" and a "Bushy", in favor of a "DelTon" coming in Friday, I have much reading to do before Friday afternoon.

    I have no commitment to any purchase at this time and I stumbled upon this post from arf, which I just found last week looking into the AR platform.

    The 6920 looks good IMHO for a few dollars more.
  12. +1000. I'd put a JP SCR-11 or CTR-02 build quality up against any other manufacturer. Mil-Spec or not. Quality, I think, is a comparative thing. For competitive 3-Gun shooters, the "quality" they need in a rifle is different from the beat cop who needs to have something that is may have to reach out 100yds or so, instead of ringing a steel flash target at 600. While they might be "interchangeable," they're optimized for their prescribed mission. If they do that well, I consider that quality.
    MSW likes this.
  13. drt4life


    Jun 18, 2013
    A good barrel is most important for an AR.....
  14. ottomatic


    Oct 15, 2002
    SW Tennessee

    It is really funny, because that is EXACTLY what I thought when I read the title. I believe that a quality barrel is the heart of a good rifle.
    Then, after reading all of the previous posts, I had to rethink that position. A barrel that is capable of 1/4 MOA in an unreliable action is virtually useless. The bottom line is that there is no "magic bullet" and there is no rifle that is perfect for everyone.

    That being said, if you have a quality barrel matched with a quality bolt (and carrier), you have a great beginning.
  15. nursetim


    Mar 1, 2006
    liberalville N. M.
    So, what is the consensus of Mforgery hierarchy? I'm looking to get one, not hard core fanboy. Just a solid entry level GP rifle.
  16. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

    Apr 7, 2011
    Arlington, VA.
    Has this devolved into the typical "if you're not military, you don't know what you're talking about" crapola yet?

    FWIW, ARs are toys.

    That's right.....for the majority of civilian owners, ARs are nothing but toys. We buy them because they're cool, interesting, fun, and fun to shoot.

    Trying to categorize people, and thusly define what AR they should own, is completely silly. Especially since it usually comes down to money and what one simply likes/wants.
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  17. mgs

    mgs Always Carrying Millennium Member

    Dec 21, 1998
    cogan station, pa, usa
    Good Parts! Over the years even Colt has used non Mil Spec parts but they were still good parts. Quite a few junk parts kits came from questionable suppliers with out of spec parts. That can be a real issue. Quite a few 1st and 2nd tier builders use great to good parts.....some Mil Spec and some even better. It's the quality parts that make a quality rifle and custom parts make a custom rifle.
  18. jbremount


    Apr 17, 2005

    +1000! Good example also. A 3-gun AR rifle will more than likely have a stainless steel barrel instead of a chrome lined barrel due to the increased accuracy of the stainless steel barrels. Also a 18"- 20" barrel with rifle length gas ports, polygonal rifling, adjustable gas block, expensive target triggers, lighten bolts and buffers, flat recoil springs, compensators...etc/etc. NONe of this is military spec. That said, innovations such as Pmags were not military spec either. AR rifles are currently more than just a government issued rifle locked in the armory and locked in time, some go to the races on weekends.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  19. kilibreaux


    Oct 12, 2013

    A "homebuilt" AR-15 generally takes only a few rounds to "proof."

    The IDEAL AR is one built from an 80% lower....there are no words that ameliorate that fact.
  20. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Louisville KY
    This MILSPEC, TDP, whatever is all a bunch of noise used to market AR crap to the public.

    Why do I say that? Because quite simply, the public has no way of knowing if BCM is selling you Carpenter 158 bolt or something else. We have no way of verifying whether its been properly tested according to government standards or not. Even if a barrel or bolt is marked with the appropriate marks we simply don't know. For all we know Colt and BCM could be selling us 4140 button rifled barrels. How would you know if they weren't? The government has inspectors and samples lots for compliance? Who tests the civilian stuff? Do you know how many government contractors actually deviate from the specs and never get caught?

    So Colt, BCM DD, et al can claim anything they want. Who's going to call them on it?

    What's more..even if the manufacturers do in fact use the spec'd materials--then there's the issue of how well they machine the part, how well they heat treat the metal, what kind of tolerances things are held to. Again, show me what independent civilian firm is testing these things?

    You can claim you trust these folks, or they sell a lot of rifles so it must be so. But that's not an objective measure. Its just a bunch of hooey.
    Nanuk likes this.
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