I understand all the sarcasim but i was only looking for helpful info on personal defense ammo. But i have already found the info i needed as well as I believe i will continue to carry the 180gr HST or downgrade to the 165gr HST. MY faith is still with federal. My only complaint was it doesnt expand well once the cavity is plugged with solid/hard material. But once again thanks to Don Glock and all who have helped me with my ammo issues. Learned so much from alot of you guys. Ask the local PD anything and its Speer Gold dot 165gr Wanna kill these ads? We can help!