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What Defensive Ammunition for the G30 SF?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Jayzod, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. G26Okie

    G26Okie

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    Apr 22, 2009
    Weston, FL
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  2. FatBoy

    FatBoy Millennium Member

    1,647
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    Sep 2, 1999
    ME
    I have never had a round problem in MY G30. I have shot everything from 185+p, 200+p, 230+p, 230 and 185(standard p), in Gold Dots, HSTs, Ranger, Cor-Bon and plain ole ball. IF you can find Speer Short Barrel I'd try that, but pretty much any of the above will work if you do your part.
    FWIW the +p's can be a bit snappy, but not all that bad IMHO.

    FB
     


  3. Max1775

    Max1775 Marine Infidel

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    Oct 1, 2009
    Helotes, Texas

    It's an old picture...:whistling:
     
  4. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
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    Jul 26, 2002

    Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

    Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

    Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

    Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

    Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
    for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

    It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



    Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me. ;)


    There ya go. Thats it.
    HTH's


    EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

    Good shooting !


    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  5. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
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    Jul 26, 2002

    I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one. ;)

    I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


    Good shooting



    CanyonMan
     
  6. NAS T MAG

    NAS T MAG

    1,814
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    Feb 12, 2007
    Northern Ohio
    This from another source:
    .45 ACP (occassionally called "11.43x23mm" by some silly Europeans)
    The .45 ACP is a recognized manstopper, and there are many excellent loads in this caliber. Some of the best:
    - Federal 230 grain Hydrashok JHP (P45HS1): a great load, and my #1 choice. It gives the most stopping power in this potent caliber.
    - Federal 185 grain JHP (45C) another top-notch load from Federal. I would choose this round for a compact, short-barrelled .45 like the Colt Officer's ACP or the S&W 4516. It has lighter recoil than the Hydrashok or CCI 200 JHP, and its higher velocity makes it more likely to expand out of a short 3.5" barrel.
    - Cor-Bon 185 grain Sierra JHP
    - CCI Lawman 200 gr. JHP (3965). a.k.a. the "Inspector" or "Flying Ashtray."
    - CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHP (3568). The "Flying Ashtray" in an economical aluminum case. Both of these CCI loads use a wide-mouth hollowpoint bullet that may jam some guns. It is 100% reliable in newer guns like the current production "enhanced" Colt 1911A1, the SIG/Sauer P220, Star M45 Firestar and Megastar, and all Smith & Wesson, Para-Ordnance, and Ruger .45 automatics and the Smith & Wesson Model 625 revolver. (Note well: if you are one of those knuckleheads who install light springs in your gun to get a lighter trigger pull you are asking for trouble. Never use CCI ammo in such a gun, as CCI uses especially hard primers and your hammer might not be able to detonate the round reliably, now that you have monkeyed with it.)
    - Remington 185 grain JHP (R45AP2). This is the best choice for older guns that may jam with other hollow-points. I would select this load for the Heckler and Koch P9S, Browning BDA, Springfield Armory, AMT and Thompson M1911A1, Llama, Star PD, etc.
    - Cor-Bon and Remington .45+P 185 grain JHP (R45AP6). These are very powerful and hard-kicking rounds best left to the experienced shooter. They are pretty hard on your gun, especially an aluminum-framed pistol like the SIG/Sauer P220 or Colt Lightweight Commander. If you are sufficiently expert to confidently carry the .45+P you certainly don't need my advice on load selection. That being said, these +P rounds are second only to the famed Hydra-shok in stopping power. They really sledgehammer the bad guys down.
    Other good .45 ACP loads.
    The Winchester Silvertip 185 grain JHP (X45ASHP2), CCI Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber (GS45APB) are all good choices. If you like them, fine, but they have no edge over loads mentioned above. I say stick to the tried and true..
     
  7. Snapper2

    Snapper2

    2,413
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    Feb 22, 2008
    s.east Texas

    CM, how would you rate the 230gr FN(hornady) or FNEB (remington) to the round nose or ball ammo as far as accuracy and penetration? Thanks for the information. I'm getting some 230gr FNEB bullets and would like to know how it compares. As far as self defense rounds in my G30 I've been loading 185gr GS and 230gr XTPs but I think I might want a mag full of hardball too.:cool:
     
  8. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    11
    Jul 26, 2002
    Well to be honest with you, I have no experience with either of the rounds you mentioned here. I do have with the 230gr XTP, and I do like the round in the 45acp. I looked at Hornadys sight, but cout not find a 230gr FN bullet offering. I tried, but if it is there I could not find it. All I saw was the XTP's and the 230gr ball which the (latter) ran only 15FPS faster than the Remington UMC FNEB. I had tolook up the FNEB as well, because I never heard of it. I read the ad for it, and it really did not seem to be anything unique, in the since that it is designed mostly with the indoor range shooter in mind, so as not to allow as much lead into the air in an enclosed shooting range.

    I will say this. I do like the idea of a 230g round nose flat point (fmj type), because at least it will still do its jobb ut has a small meplat to it, which i favor very much.

    In all my revolver hunting laods 45LC 44mag/sp, 357mag, etc, on occasion I will use a heavy for caliber XTP. By the way I like the XTP Magnum bullet for the reloader, excellent for big game. But as I was about to say, i shoot mostly ALL lead bullets for huntin applications, and they are of the Keith style, to the LBT style, so forth, again, heavy for caliber, and i choose those that have a good meplat to them. Man it is lik a cookie cutter. They will even at 100yds from a 45LC pass completely through Elk, with a 1200/1250 fps heavy bullet, and i favor a BHN of 18/21.

    I know i gave info you did not ask for. Sorry. Got carried away there. But I truly don't know a darn thing about your Remmy load. I'd rather see it, and shoot it, et. et. Plus, as I said, i could not find a 45acp XTP FN or FP.

    I had some 230gr RNFP FMJ's at one time some years back, and man i cannot remember who made them. Your question here is going to cause me to google it up, and see if i can find some.


    Sorry I have not been any help to ya. I reload all my carry rounds, or I use CCI Brass or WWB 230gr FMJ. As I said n other post. I do like the 230gr GS, and the 230gr XTP as well. For me, and JMO, I favor all three of these rounds. In order would be the 230gr ball, then the XTP, then the GS.

    I know i said different in my other post above, and 'that was because' i forgot about the XTP, and I went back and "edit it later."


    Good shooting



    CanyonMan
     
  9. CM, thank you for taking the time and care for your indepth response. I found it entertaining and entirely logical. I like a man who knows what he knows from what he's done and will 'stick to his guns' (no pun intended) despite the latest fads. You have my best wishes, Sir. Don't let anything sneak up on you out there in canyonland.
     
  10. Snapper2

    Snapper2

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    Feb 22, 2008
    s.east Texas
    Thanks for all the good info CM. I can see why you favor the FMJ or hardcast where you live. The only place I've seen the hornady 230gr FP for sale as loaded ammo is Double Tap and Buffalo Bore. Remington has their FNEB bullet in their UMC ammo, I think. I believe Midway,Natchez, and Graffs sale both bullets in the handloading section.
     
  11. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
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    Jul 26, 2002

    You are welcome, and i appreciate the kind words bud.

    As for what you wrote (i marked in blue), well if it does, guess what I'll shoot it with...... :supergrin: LOL


    Thanks man
    Take care


    CanyonMan
     
  12. SIGShooter

    SIGShooter Hucklebucks

    4,208
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    Jan 25, 2005
    230 Gr. Winchester Ranger

    OR

    230 gr. Winchester White Box FMJ

    Those are my choices that I carry on a regular basis.
     
  13. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    11
    Jul 26, 2002



    You are welcome, but I'm afraid I did not contribute much to help you out....

    Thanks for the info about Midway,Natchez, and Graffs . Appreciated ! ;)


    You stay safe !



    CanyonMan
     
  14. MURRAY

    MURRAY Millennium Member

    I use 230 non p loads in my 220 and g21 and g30 Ranger T HST and Speer GD.
     
  15. Jayzod

    Jayzod

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    Sep 13, 2008
    Actually I have to disagree with you on this. Remember my FTE only happen with High power rounds and it shoots the range ammo just fine.

    What I was thinking might be my problem is "case swelling". Possibly an out of spec chamber?

    It should be noted my G30 SF is new SN: NNN blue lable and only has around 600 rounds through it and of that only 110 were JHP. And for those of you that are thinking "LIMP WRIST" that's not it, been shooting for years (34+) never a problem with any other gun I have shot, and I have shot many.

    This is my logic. When I use HST or Gold Dot I am using High/Full power rounds the cases are expanding in the chamber when fired and thus harder to extract from the chamber causing my FTE problems.

    I think this is why I don't have the same problems with standard pressure FMJ ammo.

    Now I need to get a caliper and do some measurements of my chamber.

    If I may be so bold as to ask, what do you people measure on your G30/G30 SF chambers?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
  16. Snapper2

    Snapper2

    2,413
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    Feb 22, 2008
    s.east Texas
    Not claiming to have the answer, but dont the cases swell on all rounds,assuming you use a factory barrel? What recoil spring do you use? I use a Lone Wolf barrel for my G30 and cant feed factory hornady xtp (1.230). When I reload for this barrel I have to set the bullet back to 1.200 for all hornady bullets except the round nose fmj. You might want to try Golden Sabers but you shouldnt be having this problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
  17. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
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    Jul 26, 2002


    Well, my first suggestion still stands. Can't hurt, just to make sure everything is in proper function. Let me say this ok. I suggest this only because I have owned a great deal of Glocks , Had several G30's and do now as well. I reload and have put some loads down the pipe that were far hotter than needed for a 45acp. Just cause I wanted to. Point being, I never once experienced any problems at all. Now, that being said, i always use a Wolff 22# spring and steel rod in all my Glocks of all calibers and size. Also, I will say that if you are dead possitive that there is not a possibly over looked problem somewhere, with the extractor, (even if it does not make since to ya), if you are possitive all is well there, and every where else, then I would (without seeing the gun), say you got 'one tight chamber' for a factory barrel.

    I'm not in a place right now where I can measure the chambers on mine, sorry. But i can tell ya that every Glock I got in every caliber and size has a sloppy chamber, and never fails in any way, hot, or weak and wimpy loads, all is well. This does not mean however that 'yours' does not have some chamber issue. I understand , and agree it "might."

    How far out of the chamber are the cases coming out on the ones that stick? Part way, not at all, what? Have you measured the cases that "stick" and compared that to the ones that don't? I would do that next.

    It does sound weird that the the ball ammo is working fine and the others stick. you may be right about the chamber specs, nothing is perfect, not even glock. If you have not yet measured the ball cases and compared them to the hst etc, try that. Problem there though is that brass does not stay as stable as lead and moves a small tad when hot to cold. May show ya something though. Also, measure the loaded rounds of each. i.e. the ball, and the ones that stick, see what ya get there.

    Man I'm just thorwing out to ya what I would do if it were me, (without seeing it for my self). I never thought you were limp wristing, if you know for sure you are not, fine. It does always hurt our pride, but let a friend shoot it and see if it does the same thing. Hey, no harm in that. ;) The gun is new to ya, maybe there is some little quirk in your shooting you are over looking. I been shooting for around 50 years, grew up living on it in about every caliber and gun you can imagine, but there are times I've handed the gun to someone else and said, you try it, it ain't workin for me man... Like I said, not saying it is you man, just saying can't hurt to try all avenues, to hunt down the problem, and make sure you have done all possible to eliminate everything in the world, to get to the "root" of the problem, which just very well may be a out of spec chamber, it sure could be. But i do suggest to at least do all the elimination situations first.

    Don't know when I can get back to get a measurment on mine for ya. Perhaps someone else on here with a G30 can do that in the mean time.

    Last suggestion. Measure yours, call Glock Monday, or Dan at LWD, and ask them what they think of your measurement.... This (above) would at least cover about all you can do, and you can tell Glock if need be, that you have measured chamber, measured unfired 'and' fired cases for comparision, and that yes, you even let a friend shoot to rule out it ain't you.

    Trust me, I have closely known several of the guys at glock for about 14 years. They are friends. They will ask you if you let some one else shoot the gun. (at least they are told to ask you that, and usually do)... At least if they do, you can say 'yes'. This WILL get you closer to getting their more immediate help. Like I said call LWD as well, (probably 'first' actually), and ask for Dan, he is "the armorer there" ask him about your "specs" measurement, and he can tell you what is what, and even measure a few barrels there on the bench as well...

    That is my suggestions to ya. FWIW. ;)


    Let us know what you find out.




    CanyonMan
     
  18. Iceman cHucK

    Iceman cHucK

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    Jun 23, 2008
    WA state
    I agree with Canyonman on his reasons for carrying 230fmj ball, and by the way I'm 62 and a little fixed in my ways! I also have some info on the flat point ball. Hornady used to load a 230fmjfp load that was in the low 800's velocity but no longer does. I have one box left. The bullets are still available, and I got some at MidwayUSA recently. LOADX Ammunition in CA loads a copy of the Hornady 230fmjfp round, I've tried it and like it. You can also get it at Double Tap but it is hotter than the LoadX round. I also like the Hornady 230xtp for its penetration.
     
  19. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    11
    Jul 26, 2002

    Iceman cHucK


    Hey guy I appreciate the additional info on the fmjfp's, I just have not seen any around in a long while.

    Sanpper also suggestedthese guys as well... Midway,Natchez, and Graffs. I'm not to sold on the hotter DT stuff for the 45acp, or a smaller grain than 230.

    I need to check these out maybe thins evening or tomorrow and see what is what. I appreciate all the heads up from you both on these.

    Sounds like ya best hold on long as ya can to that box you have left. ;)

    Yeh, some of us old guys :fred: are kinda like they say about the "old dogs." I am always learning, but sometimes 'not willing' to "do the new tricks..." LOL

    Well you stay safe, and good shooting to ya, and thanks again.


    CanyonMan
     
  20. Jayzod

    Jayzod

    406
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    Sep 13, 2008
    Thank you Sir for all the information you have provided I do appreciate it. :wavey:

    Okay I took the gun (G30 SF) apart last night and compared it to my flawless trusty G21 SF. Did my best to measure what I could.

    The only difference I could see was in three places (other than the obvious size difference between the 2 guns and the recoil springs) first being the "ejector" it is sitting about 1.5mm more "forward" on the G30 than the G21 and had a shinny buffing to the top side of it but no chips, bends or other signs or damage.

    The second area of difference was the G30 shows the notorious gouge on the top flat of the trigger bar. But from what I understand this causes failure to return to battery problems of which at this point I don't seem to have.

    Lastly the final area of difference was the barrel. The first thing I noticed was the G30's barrel is a dull dark gray color and not the nice deep black of the G21's. Then I noticed that on the G30's barrel the spot where the recoil spring sits is much less pronounced and so to are all the groves where the barrel rides when it's ejecting the rounds.

    Anyway I plan to get some more range time in soon and try a new HP out I'm thinking Remington GS.

    Thanks to everyone who as tried to help!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009