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What are "Christian Values" exactly?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by fowl intent, Mar 20, 2013.


  1. fowl intent

    fowl intent
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    I was reading on another thread where it was asserted that a society living by Christian values would have less crime, and in general a better place to live. On a fundamental level I agree.

    But what exactly are "Christian values"? If you take away the obligatory belief in the Trinity, what are The Christian values we hear so much about?

    Love your neighbor (and your enemies) as you love yourself?
    Honor your parents? Kill no-one, don't steal from them or lust after their wife or property, don't lie? Basically this is just a more detailed version of The Golden Rule.

    Is this a good summary of Christian Values? If not, let me hear your version.

    How do Christian Values differ from the values of say....theJews, or the Hindus, Buddists, Taoists, or any other non-Muslim religion?

    But the biggest question is: can a society live by these Christian values without necessarily believing in the religious doctrine? It seems to me the answer is clearly yes.

    And if the answer is yes, then there is no basis or justification for Christians to demonize or demean non-believers' morals and ethics. If the answer is yes, why can't we get along with the business of making our society a better one, without bringing religious beliefs into the equation? Religious beliefs and differences in beliefs have historically been far more devisive than unifying forces.

    What say ye?
     

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  2. ezthumper

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    For the most part.

    the idea of the 'Trinity' is actually the belief of the Catholic Church and sects like them. All the 'Trinity' idea is that the Son, Father and the Holy Ghost is one in the same. However, the bible contradicts this.

    EDIT: Also you will find the "three faces" of god in numerous texts in various religions. Hindu's has this to name one.

    It is in other religions also, and the golden rule was pulled from those tenets of religious belief.

    Like I said, it is also in other religions also, and not inclusive to Christianity.

    Christians built on top of the Jewish religion. And the other religions if you look close, you will see similar stories that relate to each other, then spur off to different directions and dictate differently on how you are supposed to live.

    Not all Christians demonize other non-believers or non Christians. Just the Zealots do this, and it is not only Christians, in a lot of the Muslim teachings, we, the western world, are Satan. Period. there are 'Moderates' in the muslim type religions, but they have a much stronger stance towards family, gay marriage etc. that make Christians look like Left wing Liberals of the nth degree.
     

    #2 ezthumper, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  3. JerryVO

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    I have a bit of a different perspective. Christian values are something specific and that is the 10 commandments. The golden rule is a simplified and more general application of the commandments and about living a moral life. The points above are valid and many religions have their own version of the golden rule but if you look at it through their cultural lenses it is not apples to apples. A great example would be beating your wife. Obviously this is not a christian value thing to do but in the middle east there are provisions for beating your wife in Islam. From their perspective it is perfectly acceptable and moral, from a more western perspective (read judeo christian) it is not so while both religions have a version of the golden rule it is applied very differently. Same would go with some of the interesting rights of passage for tribes around the world.

    Western morality is built on 'christian values' where if you look at other regions in the world, middle east, tribes in south america or Africa, etc... what is moral to them may not be to us and vice versa.

    This is not to say that in the western world everyone is aligned on every issue, just look at abortion, but general our societal morality follows judeo christian beliefs. Even if you are an atheist your basis of morality in the modern world is learned from people around you which is jodeo christian based. If you took the same atheist and they were born and raised in a completely alien culture most likely their idea of what is moral would be at least loosely based on what that society believes.

    So yes you can lead a moral live without being a christian but your perspective on what is moral is christian based.

    AS far as Christians demonizing others I agree that is totally uncalled for but to make society a better place those better values have to some from some sense of morality and for most of us that is a christian base since that is what molded our society initially.

    Without some basis in a higher being telling us what is right or wrong how to you define right or wrong from a societal standpoint.
     
    #3 JerryVO, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  4. Glock36shooter

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    Well if we are going to begin with the 10 Commandments... we need to address the fact that most of them are not unique to Christianity nor Judaism. Or in other words the men that invented the Jewish and Christian Gods did not invent many of these concepts.

    1. I am the Lord thy God, ... Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    This one is fairly unique. The ancient israelites were polytheistic. Even after the adoption of this value they remained so for centuries. But the world was largely polytheistic when it came to religions so this is fairly unique. There is some debate though whether this truly pertains to single God figure... or just a "Preferred" God among the many the ancient israelites worshiped at the time. It's very possible this was just a selection of their God of War as their "Primary" God... hence the "no other gods before me" part. There were other gods... but Yahweh was to be top dog.

    2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images.

    This one is fairly unique. Abraham was also known for not caring for idols.

    3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

    Most religions don't take kindly to this... this one is fairly generic.

    4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Very Unique.

    5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.

    No where close to being original. This has been a value of humanity probably before language was developed.

    6. Thou shalt not kill.

    Again... one of man's oldest laws. Not Original at all.

    7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

    Protecting ones mate is as old as mating itself.

    8. Thou shalt not steal.

    Again... c'mon taking someone else's things has always been an offense.

    9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

    Truth has always been valued by man in any society. I doubt you'll find any culture where being dishonest was the "Standard" for dealing with one another.

    10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.

    Excessive lust, or want have long been considered to be detrimental to people. History is loaded with tales of how someone's lust or greed caused them destroy themselves. So the wording of this is somewhat unique but the idea isn't.


    So aside from how to deal with the Jewish/Christian God... Christian values aren't really unique to the Jewish/Christian belief system. They've been borrowed and repurposed from other cultures and value systems that predate Judaism and Christianity. Predate them by a HUGE margin.

    The core of Christian values are just Human Values.
     
    #4 Glock36shooter, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  5. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams
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    "Sin all week, go to church on Sunday".
     
  6. Vic Hays

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    Interesting post.

    The last Six commandments are necessary for a society to function smoothly.

    The first Four commandments deal directly with our obligation to the Creator. Since the Creator does not force worship, these should be outside the bounds of civil legislation.

    A day of rest has been enforced civilly from time to time. What is ironic is that the Forth Commandment deals with the Sabbath of the Creator which He plainly states is the Seventh day or as known by us as Saturday. The law enforced has generally been the first day known as Sunday. This cannot be a Christian value because it is not of Christian origin.

    The first time this was enforced was the law honoring the Sun by the Emperor Constantine 321 AD. This is honoring a created object not the Creator.

    Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
     
    #6 Vic Hays, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  7. Roering

    Roering
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    Jesus summed them up rather well in two easy to remember statements:

    Matthew 22: 37-40
    Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    For you Atheists out there, the Wild Stallions have a different version:

    "Be excellent to each other........and party on Dudes"

    [​IMG]

    So when all is said and done, the Jesus plan has a few more rules, but you get an afterlife.

    ....which is nice
     
  8. muscogee

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    Nations cannot live by Christian values. You cannot turn the other cheek if your neighbor is a predator. You cannot love your neighbor enough to give him/her everything you have and trust God to provide. Some utopian societies like the Shakers have tried it but they soon disappeared. They lasted as long as they did because their neighbors were willing to ignore Christian values and protect them from those who would do them harm.
     
  9. Vic Hays

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    Those are distorted values.

    For example: Loving your neighbor as yourself may mean you should share not give everything to them.
     
  10. muscogee

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    That''s not what the scriptures say and you know it. You're the one who distorts scripture.
     
    #10 muscogee, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  11. NMG26

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    We are the higher being.

    Our highest ideas regarding faith hope and love.

    .
     
  12. NMG26

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    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Empq3ZkTm8E"]Little Big Town - Boondocks (Official Video) with lyrics - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. Vic Hays

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    You will have to show me from the scriptures in context.
     
  14. TK-421

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    Kill anybody who doesn't agree with you.
     
  15. Glock36shooter

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    If you say so. I don't particularly think that adultery or coveting someone else's stuff is that big a deal. Marriage is and has always been a failed institution without the fear of at least public ridicule, or like in the good ole days a savage beating or death. Don't get me wrong... I think it should be available to whomever wants it. Including same sex couples. But it fails more often than it succeeds. Holding on to that type of value has little to do with a smooth society. Societies run smoothly when their laws offer Freedom, Safety, and Security to a balanced degree.

    LOL, how long has man had Monday Through Sunday? You think God hates Mondays as much as the rest of us?
     
  16. Blast

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    'nuff said

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    Hmmm... calenders seem to list Sunday as first day. Interesting.:whistling:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. muscogee

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    You're asking for context? That's really hypocritical. I can't remember the times I have seen you take a few scriptures from the New Testament and a few from the Old Testament and claim that makes you point. It takes more than a handful sentences to discern the meaning of 66 books.

    Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said to turn the other cheek and go the second mile. Peter asked Jesus what to do if someone has sinned against you seven time and you have forgiven them seven times. Jesus said forgive seven times seventy. So the U.S. should have turned the other cheek after 9-11 and continue turning it indefinitely? That's absurd. If we did that we would all end up being Al Qaeda or dead.

    Jesus said to get to Heaven you have to sell everything you have and give to the poor. Jesus said if you lend money to someone and expect repayment you're a sinner. You know this. No sane person does these things because they're absurd. They only make sense in the context of believing that Jesus is coming right back and nothing else matter but doing what he said. These things are an extreme test of faith. Outside that context, they are absurd.

    OK. Cut and stitch time. Let's see it.
     
  18. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams
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    Not everywhere. In my homeland, the week starts with Monday. Of course, we have a different flavor of Christianity too. :wavey:
     
  19. Glock36shooter

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    That's not what I was saying... what I meant was how long has man had a Monday period?
     
  20. ezthumper

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    On most Mondays, my wife swears I am having a man period....