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Whaddya do when you cant find load data?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by wongman1, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. wongman1

    wongman1

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    So Im about to load my very first batch of 9mm on my new LnL. Ive setup my dies with Hornady xtp hp bullets and will run about 25 of them at different gr's and test em at the range. cci primers, win cases, unique powder.

    In the meantime, Ive just ordered 2000 Armscor 9mm 124gr fmj bullets. I read a lot of good things about their projectiles, ammo, and guns. Hopefully I wont regret it. Of course I will have to readjust some dies and the powder drop. Unfortunately, I cant find any load data. Ive called Armscor in Nevada and the guy was helpful by saying to use load data for a similar type bullet.

    So my questions are:
    1. Does anyone have experience with Armscor projectiles. If so, do you have 9mm 124gr load data?

    2. Is using a similar bullet type acceptable practice for non published load data? If not, what do you do?

    Sorry for the noob questions, I thought I done the homework before posting. Thx!!!
     
  2. Lethaltxn

    Lethaltxn

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  3. 04gtmustang

    04gtmustang

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    guesstimate hahaha jk jk dont do that lol
     
  4. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

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    I'm not familiar with those projectiles, so I cannot comment on them. As for the load data, what their representative told you is correct. Use load data for a similar composition/weight/profile projectile, obviously at the starting load (10% reduction if only max data is provided). Use the same COL as given in the load data. Work them up to find a comfortable, safe loading for your needs.
     
  5. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Welcome to the handloading club! You have just moved passed the casual reloader status. Unless one has quite a bit of money, using printed data exactly as is means using top shelf components. Most lead bullet users are always on their own when it comes to OAL & charge wts.
    Match the bullet wt & shape as close as possible to printed data & work up the load. Keep in mind that lead bullets use less powder than jacketed of sam weights. It's always safe to use heavier bullet data for lighter bullets, if one can't find any data for a given bullet.
     
  6. XDRoX

    XDRoX

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    I ask Fred.
     
  7. wongman1

    wongman1

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    Thanks fella's... all great ideas... too bad no one has experience with Armscor. Supposedly, they are the largest ammo manufactuer in southeast asia.
    http://www.armscor.net/about.html
     
  8. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

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    Wongman, that's an interesting bit of history regarding Rock Island Armory.

    I want to restress that when adapting comparable loads, you use similar bullets, ie. jacketed for jacketed, lead for lead, obviously equal weights, and similar profiles for your COL (FMJ for FMJ, JHP for JHP). You should get the idea.

    You don't want to use jacketed data for lead bullets. You also do not want to use JHP COL for FMJs as the FMJs are a longer profile. Seating a FMJ to JHP COL would reduce available case volume, greatly increasing pressures.
     
  9. wongman1

    wongman1

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    Nov 4, 2009
    Thanks PCJim... I totally understand about matching bullet for bullet.

    Ya, that was interesting read on rock island (US version of Armscor). Too bad 90% what I can find on them is in Tagalog. I Picked up 2000 of the 9mm fmj for 150 delivered. Not bad pricing, I think. It was that or Berrys plated stuff (which I will try next time).
     
  10. FLSlim

    FLSlim

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    FL primaries today, and I cast my vote for Fredj (even if he isn't a Floridian) and PCJim. Do as they say and you'll be a happy reloader, wongman.
     
  11. jmorris

    jmorris

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    Find something close then start low and work up.

    I know, the range is 4 days drive away and it takes forever. Just take a press, chronograph, and all the other stuff with you.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. herdingcats

    herdingcats still new

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    I load 10 cartridges at each gr weight starting at the lowest match (JHP to JHP, etc). So if data shows a safe range of 6.4 gr to 7.2 gr for your type of projectile, then I build 10 at 6.4 gr, 10 at 6.5 gr, and so forth all the way up to 7.2 gr. That way you don't need loading equip at the range (though if my equip was more mobile, that would be cool).

    Then use a chrono set-up to see what you're getting out of each load until you get to a FPS that matches or approaches the highest match that you find in other similar load data... no matter what you read in any book, you just found your load maximum.
     
  13. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Borrow one of Jack's guns.... :)

    seriously.. I agree w/ jmorris
     
  14. shotgunred

    shotgunred local trouble maker

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    Well a quick trip to their web site shows you are buying 124 gr fmj that they max out at 1125 FPS.
    You didn't list a powder. So first you need to pick a powder and then just find some load data for 124 gr FMJ.

    WAY#1. Start 10% less than max and work up from there to find and accurate load without pressure signs.

    WAY#. Start a little above bottom and work your way up. looking for gun function and accurate load without pressure signs.

    SO lets say my data says WSF From 4.7 grains to 5.3 grains.
    I loaded 25 rounds of 4.7; 5.0;5.2 each. i started with the 4.7 and shot 10 off the bench. then 5.0 and 5.2.
    I then shot 5 round groups of each at 25, 50 and 75 feet.
    After comparing them all and measuring the groups I chose the most accurate for me and my gun. If I had a crono I would have used it during the first 10 rounds. Just for fun lets say I liked 5.0 best. I then did the same thing with 4.9 : 5.0 :5.1.
    At the end of that I chose the load I was going to use and loaded up a few hundred to run the gun with.

    Not the only way or even the best but it works for me.
     
  15. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    If you can't find load data for a 124 gr bullet and Unique your not trying very hard.
     
  16. wongman1

    wongman1

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    Nov 4, 2009

    Theres plenty of load data for 124gr and unique. I just wasnt clear if it had to be specific for a bullet brand. I am clear now after several peeps posted their replies. Theres a lot of info to be had out there from reputable sources, that its overwhelming. Ive also been told that its best to use load data from the bullet manufactuer, while others have said to use the data from the powder people. It makes a noob believe that matching brands is important, which it is not, kind of. I have the Lee, Hornady, and 9mm loadbooks. All of them have different loads with different components. For you all experienced loaders, deciphering it may be easy. But dont worry, I will get there eventually.
     
  17. wongman1

    wongman1

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    Nov 4, 2009
    Thats great info.
    I did come across that info on their website, btw its 1090fps for 124 fmj.
    http://www.armscor.com.ph/cfp_9mm.htm

    But a noob running across this looking for 'complete' load data would not know how to deciper this chart or what to do with that info. I would assume that 1090 is max fps. Wheres the COAL and amount of powder to use? After your explanation, I think I undstand now how to use that info in that chart - use the powder load data to slowly reach the optimum fps for your particular gun.

    Noobs, until schooled properly, assume there is a one stop chart for all this data. Im understanding know there are just too many variables to have in 1 chart. Im also understanding that theres much more todo after setting up the press and then punching out 1000's of rounds, like actually finding a load that works for you gun - that part really isnt the known part when first starting out.

    Thanks for your method of working up a load. That helps a lot as there really isnt clear documentation out there in internet world... Things are starting to click now...:brickwall:
     
  18. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    It's all seems overwhelming. Bullet manfactures don't ussually give data. Only some of the bigger ones. My method is a little different then what others posted. Especially for working up loads that truely have no real load data. For instance. Solo 1000 has no data for my 105gr lead .380 loading. But I was able to find some data that was above and below the weight of the bullet I needed to use. Using starting loads I was able to guess at a good starting load for my 105 gr Lead bullet. Basically, I reduced the load the same % as the other lead loads I did have data for. I started a little lower then that and then tested just 5 for function. Thoose 5 cycled the gun very slowly compared to factory loads. Thats pretty common for a true "starting load". I added just .1gr (this is .380 after all) and the gun cycled a lot better but was still soft. I could add another .1 grain but for that .380 it's really not worth the trouble so I am done.
     
  19. wongman1

    wongman1

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    Nov 4, 2009

    Good info! Thanks. Looks I need to get a chrony now...
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Well it depends. Not all 124gr bullets are the same. The XTP tends to load short in some guns due to it's sharp TC profile. The RGS has a short driving band& the bullet is long for it's weight, so they aren't just plug & play regardless fo whos data you use. Matching the bullet profile is about the best you can do. There are a lot of bullets manuf out there & there is no data for them, so matching construction & profile w/ printed data gets you in the ball park & then work up the load.
    FWIW, I NEVER use starting data, especially in semiautos. Rarely will the powder burn efficently (unburnt powder) or give best accuaracy (unburnt powder). So I start w/ AVERAGE middle data form 3 sources. Then load up in 0.1gr increments to max or load down if I am looking for soft loads for a young or newb shooter. Load no more than 10rds for each charge wt (I hate pulling bullets) & note functioning, accuarcy & pressure signs or lack of.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010