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Well you asked for it. 650 impressions.

6K views 75 replies 27 participants last post by  n2extrm 
#1 ·
I am almost afraid to say anything but here it goes anyway.

Every case goes into the shell plate with no drama. Pushing to prime is effortless compared to the LnL. You can see why because the primer punch rises MUCH higher then the primer punch on the LnL. Indexing is smoother and easier to control because you can slow down your movement just as the press indexes rather then the press constantly indexing like on the LnL. I did put the roller bearing setup on the press. I prefer the expanding die on the powder measure as well. There are some things about the LnL I prefer but this press actually works a lot more effortlessly so that is far more important to me. I have not loaded a bunch so I will have to report on that next week. This is the press I should have bought instead of the LnL.
 
#53 ·
I have yet to have a upside down case... I've read that the stability of the case feeder is an issue causing it at times...

What do you feel is the cause? What did you do to alleviate the chances of getting them?
I've had one upside down 45acp case in some 2000rds now. I think anything is possible w/ the case feeder. If it happens all the time, it's a problem, if it throws one every few 1000, it' an anomily.:dunno:
 
#54 · (Edited)
Added a picture of my bullet holder. It's set back a little farther then the Dillon setup with a strong mount. I prefer it like that.

Me new bullet tray/holder.



Roller bearing mod with only one washer.



Primer chute mod.



Brace to wall.



Spent primer setup.



Overview

 
#56 ·
You two do realize that we landed on the moon with less complications... don't you?


Jack
 
#58 ·
I fill the case feeder with out the ladder. Ladder is there so I can get into the case feeder if needed.
I put a little 4 inch diameter convex stick on automotive mirror on the ceiling to keep an eye on the case feeder brass level as I'm loading. :supergrin:
 
#59 ·
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.

Not having both presses to look at creates questions as to the problem in the first place. Could you elaborate some. Are any of these from the aftermarket guys I asked about in earlier threads?

I'm not trying to start a R vs B war. But I am curious. If both machines need some sort of operator modification. Why is it not considered a problem for both.

Very Nice setup either way. Thanks for the pictures
 
#60 ·
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.
The problem is not the "after market fixes". The problem is "not being able to solve a problem either via the factory or a jury rig". With Steve's LNL, he could not get the cases to feed consistently enough for him. And I agree with him... one hang up in 1000 might be acceptable, whereas 3 or 4 per 100 (or more) is not.
 
#61 ·
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.
Because the 650 "works" fine without the mods... A lot of those things Steve done, are personal preference. The only one of those mods that one might deem absolutely necessary, is the roller bearing, to prevent the shellplate from snapping. I'm fine w/o it. The tube for the spent primers is merely a convenience thing... run a tube to your trash can, and never have to worry about emptying the little cup.

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from to be truthful. The machine will work just fine w/o any of the things he done to it.

The LNL, w/o some of the mods that he apparently done, would not work effectively. Even after the mods he done, there were still issues he could not resolve and apparently Hornady couldn't either.

IGF
 
#62 ·
On the Hornady you are modifying the press HOPING to get the press to work the way it should work from the factory.

On the 650 you are modifying the press to make it run just a smidgen nicer.

Bearing is nice but not needed. It cost under $10 so it's not exactly a expensive thing. For some people the bearing lets them load really full cases faster. I did a run of 100 the other night. 5 mins. No issues. Even if my LnL was priming properly it would never be able to load that fast with out breaking something.

Spent primer catcher on my 650 was about as good as my 550 one. Not perfect but not horrible. If your judge of a press is how well it catch's a primer then you need some new priorities.

The only "Mod" I would not want to live without is the little plastic tube over the unused primer catcher. That was so easy but really works and I needed.

When you try and load fast on a LnL and the case does not go into the shell plate all the way you will crush that case under the sizer die and start breaking decapping pins. It will happen. Your only good option is to go slow enough so that you can watch cases go into the shell plate, also watch for powder and also seat a bullet. 650 lets you just pull the handle and not watch station 1 because the case is much better guided into the shell plate and much better supported as it goes to the shell plate.

In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines. Later I will post pictures in another thread about each machine showing the difference in quality of engineering. LnL does have some nice features and it's cheaper. But from a production machine standpoint it's just not as good. Because of the design of the 650 it's a little harder to do some things on it then on a LnL. That is just the way it is. I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.

Keep in mind the user criteria determines their satisfaction with their press based on their personal expectations. I was talking with someone on another forum about the 650/LnL/550 and he basically said he could load 100 rds in 9 mins easily. So he was happy. I can see that 100 %. At that pace I can fix the odd case (2-100) that don't do the right thing and not have it be a big issue. But you are watching a bunch of different things. I expect a case feed press to load just as reliably as my 550 running at 8 mins per 100 rds but also be able to crank out 100 rds in about 6 mins easy enough. That is my criteria. You don't always know peoples perspective when you talk about these things on a forum. Never mind people lie.
 
#63 ·
Because the 650 "works" fine without the mods... A lot of those things Steve done, are personal preference. The only one of those mods that one might deem absolutely necessary, is the roller bearing, to prevent the shellplate from snapping. I'm fine w/o it. The tube for the spent primers is merely a convenience thing... run a tube to your trash can, and never have to worry about emptying the little cup.

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from to be truthful. The machine will work just fine w/o any of the things he done to it.

The LNL, w/o some of the mods that he apparently done, would not work effectively. Even after the mods he done, there were still issues he could not resolve and apparently Hornady couldn't either.

IGF
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.
 
#64 ·
On the Hornady you are modifying the press HOPING to get the press to work the way it should work from the factory.

On the 650 you are modifying the press to make it run just a smidgen nicer.

Bearing is nice but not needed. It cost under $10 so it's not exactly a expensive thing. For some people the bearing lets them load really full cases faster. I did a run of 100 the other night. 5 mins. No issues. Even if my LnL was priming properly it would never be able to load that fast with out breaking something.

Spent primer catcher on my 650 was about as good as my 550 one. Not perfect but not horrible. If your judge of a press is how well it catch's a primer then you need some new priorities.

The only "Mod" I would not want to live without is the little plastic tube over the unused primer catcher. That was so easy but really works and I needed.

When you try and load fast on a LnL and the case does not go into the shell plate all the way you will crush that case under the sizer die and start breaking decapping pins. It will happen. Your only good option is to go slow enough so that you can watch cases go into the shell plate, also watch for powder and also seat a bullet. 650 lets you just pull the handle and not watch station 1 because the case is much better guided into the shell plate and much better supported as it goes to the shell plate.

In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines. Later I will post pictures in another thread about each machine showing the difference in quality of engineering. LnL does have some nice features and it's cheaper. But from a production machine standpoint it's just not as good. Because of the design of the 650 it's a little harder to do some things on it then on a LnL. That is just the way it is. I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.

Keep in mind the user criteria determines their satisfaction with their press based on their personal expectations. I was talking with someone on another forum about the 650/LnL/550 and he basically said he could load 100 rds in 9 mins easily. So he was happy. I can see that 100 %. At that pace I can fix the odd case (2-100) that don't do the right thing and not have it be a big issue. But you are watching a bunch of different things. I expect a case feed press to load just as reliably as my 550 running at 8 mins per 100 rds but also be able to crank out 100 rds in about 6 mins easy enough. That is my criteria. You don't always know peoples perspective when you talk about these things on a forum. Never mind people lie.
Thaaaank You!!! That was a very good answer. I look forward to the pictures. Take care.
 
#65 ·
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.
Wasn't defensive at all, it was just an observation of reading his posts. None of those mods *have* to be done to make the machine work properly.

Best of luck on your decision.
 
#66 ·
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.
Something was wrong with the priming on my press. On the other hand the case feeder was really no different then many others. I don't know if Bob2223 post about modding the slider is still around but my issues with the slider are common for a lot of people on the LnL. Just look around.

You have the total wrong impression on the 650 slinging powder issue. Keep in mind 5 mins per hundred is not fast for a 650. Some people are loading well under that with a bullet feeder or auto drive. You can easily control the speed of indexing on the 650 by just not pushing so fast in that part of the handle stroke. LnL has the same issue. But it's not solvable because the LnL is always indexing.

If you care this much about the research of the press you really should just get the 650. If this stuff is that important to you the safe choice is clearly Blue.
 
#67 · (Edited)
Something was wrong with the priming on my press. On the other hand the case feeder was really no different then many others. I don't know if Bob2223 post about modding the slider is still around but my issues with the slider are common for a lot of people on the LnL. Just look around.

You have the total wrong impression on the 650 slinging powder issue. Keep in mind 5 mins per hundred is not fast for a 650. Some people are loading well under that with a bullet feeder or auto drive. You can easily control the speed of indexing on the 650 by just not pushing so fast in that part of the handle stroke. LnL has the same issue. But it's not solvable because the LnL is always indexing.

If you care this much about the research of the press you really should just get the 650. If this stuff is that important to you the safe choice is clearly Blue.
Thanks for the decent replies. I should probably stick in one thread. You answered most of this already. Thanks I more than likely will get the 650. Owning one will make your pictures more readily understandable. Was your spent primer fix helpful from the dirt issue I read about with Dillons?
 
#69 ·
In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines.
That's a great summary statement of the issue for me! Do I want a hobbyist or production machine?

Thanks Steve for that concise and well articulated summary!
 
#72 ·
I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.
Have you broken 5 minutes a hundred yet? :rofl:

I have once or twice just for kicks.... it's ridiculous isn't it?

I wanted to test the RT1200 trimmer and the load rate yesterday, 300 cases sized and trimmed to case gauge perfection in 10 minutes.
 
#74 ·
Dang! that's almost 2000 per hour!
I know it's crazy... I was trying out Dillon lube for the first time rather than HOS. The Dillon lube is probably a little slicker, but I like the way HOS dries not as oily as the Dillon lube. I wouldn't normally do it that fast but just wanted to see if it could be done.
 
#75 ·
Have you broken 5 minutes a hundred yet? :rofl:

I have once or twice just for kicks.... it's ridiculous isn't it?

I wanted to test the RT1200 trimmer and the load rate yesterday, 300 cases sized and trimmed to case gauge perfection in 10 minutes.
5 mins was pretty easy when you consider I just got the ergonomics of my bench setup for the 650 and have barely got tuned in to the press at all.
 
#76 ·
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.

Not having both presses to look at creates questions as to the problem in the first place. Could you elaborate some. Are any of these from the aftermarket guys I asked about in earlier threads?

I'm not trying to start a R vs B war. But I am curious. If both machines need some sort of operator modification. Why is it not considered a problem for both.

Very Nice setup either way. Thanks for the pictures
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.
Casesensitive,

I have two 650s basically as they came out of the box, the only mod or add on is the roller handle. I love the press and have no real issues, and as other have said the mods aren't really required to get it to run. I had a 550 before the 650 and still have my RC. I love the 650, the loading rate and smooth operation make it a pleasure to load on.

I did look at the LNL before I bought the 650, Steve and I actually talked about it a couple of times. After seeing what Steve did not like about the LNL I do not regret my purchase. Little things like the case locater buttons, the case insertion all add up to better function in my opinion. Yes it adds expense to the caliber conversions, but the cost has a benefit in reliable operation. Again MHO obviously.

The spilled powder is a little exaggerated, and you may loose a primer on the ski ramp or from the spent primer can. In the end the 650 makes alot of high quality ammo in a short amount of time. That is what it's job really is, isn't it? :dunno:
 
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