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War Veteran Arrested for “Rudely Displaying” Rifle

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by HerrGlock, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

    The majority of the public have no firm opinion one way or the other on gun rights/gun control.

    Which side will his actions likely push people to?
    In reality, guys like him are killing us on the issue. They are more effective than all the money Blomberg spends.


    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
     
  2. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    It's not just whether what you carry is legal. It's also about how you carry it. Carrying a rifle casually slung at the shoulder along a public road is one thing. Carrying a rifle slung across the chest in a tactical 'ready' position while walking down that same road is quite another.

    I can see where that could cause legitimate alarm and can see why the police got a call.

    That being said, the officer seems to have overreacted by drawing down on the man when he refused to surrender his weapon. The situation didn't call for anything more than a simple, "Sir, would you mind re-slinging that rifle?".

    Both sides could stand to mellow out a bit.
     

  3. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    :rofl:

    No, not banned. I've read the thread TBO links to. It has the same questions I'm asking.

    You finally answered your own question by doing the research you should have done before. It is not illegal to carry a rifle openly, and the only crime he cold have committed with it he wasn't charged with.

    Now if they did ask him to disarm and he didn't comply then he forked up. But since they have dropped the resisting I'm not too sure.
     
  4. Years ago, when I was a dumb kid, I had a beat-up old truck. The radio didn't work, so I was driving with headphones on. I got stopped for it.

    Because I was young and dumb, I also didn't have insurance. I was stopped for the headphones and I was cited for the no insurance, with no citation for the reason of the initial stop.


    My point being that just because the cops stopped him for one thing, the fact that he wasn't charged with it doesn't make it an invalid reason for the stop.
     
  5. As military former guy, this guy is not to smart. A office approaching you with a gun slung at your chest level or ready, is not smart.

    no matter what he thought of his RKBA arms. Any half dim-wit should understand that's a bad posture to be in.
     
  6. ray9898

    ray9898

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    No...it doesn't. If an officer is called to investigate an unknown situation and an armed person refuses to disarm for the encounter every alarm bell in any reasonable officers head should be ringing.
     
  7. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    By "him" and "us" do you mean the man breaking no laws or the officer who arrested him for it?

    Without the hassle by LEO, there is no story.
     
  8. JAS104

    JAS104 NRA Life Member

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    I agree.
    This is the exact opposite of the kind of press we need. I've said it before, when you display a firearm you immediately represent all gun owners. Whether that's good or bad is up to the person displaying it.




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  9. G26S239

    G26S239 NRA Patron

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    Counter Intelligence Agent on the nearby base. I wonder how long he will still have his Top Secret clearance if he is too stupid to avoid problems like this?
     
  10. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    My point is that the officer didn't have to instantly demand that the father surrender his weapon. The man wasn't breaking any laws or committing any overt, illegal act. Given this, the officer could have (and likely should have) simply asked that the father re-sling his weapon in a less 'aggressively tactical' manner.

    Good cops know that sometimes the soft approach and defusing a situation works better than pushing a hard line and escalating things.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  11. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    I am uncertain that asking someone who is a suspect in an investigation to handle a weapon, to move it around, is a good idea tactically. Maybe that is why the police tend to give an order such as "drop it" as opposed to "put it back in your wasteband" or "resling it to the other side."
     
  12. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    Doesn't taking it off to drop it also require handling the weapon?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  13. 427

    427

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    Had this happened in ABQ, that guy would've been shot by APD.
     
  14. ray9898

    ray9898

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    The mannerisms and totality of the circumstances of the contact dictate how it's played. The guy with the rifle at ready/pistol in his hand who is doing nothing obviously illegal may have just killed his wife down the street.

    If you are investigating an unknown situation with a weapon at the ready you disarm them, not doing so has got plenty of cops killed. For example, a holstered pistol may be treated different than one in the hand.
     
  15. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    He didn't have a pistol in hand. It was holstered and concealed.

    As for the situation being "unknown", every car a police officer stops and every person a police officer encounters MAY HAVE just killed their wife down the street. That doesn't justify treating everyone like a killer absent any sort of illegal act.

    Look, I don't think the guy with the AR-15 was any more right than the officer. He should have realized that carrying a weapon in a ready position like that can cause alarm and will likely get you stopped and questioned. I'm just saying on the flip side, the officer probably could have approached this with a good deal more tact than hopping out of his car, drawing down and demanding that the guy surrender his weapon.

    It sounds to me like BOTH of them need to lay off the testosterone a bit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  16. antipop

    antipop

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    From what I have seen, law enforcement officers tend to respond to situations with emphasis on their own safety. And I wouldn't fault any of them for doing such. An officer responding to such a call would have no way of knowing whether or not the person walking around with a rifle is doing lawful things or not. It is perfectly reasonable to me that for the duration of his contact with the suspicious armed person that he secure the weapons.
    Its silly to think otherwise. Least in my humble opinion.
     
  17. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Well that applies to anyone walking. Why does a rifle change the situation?


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  18. ray9898

    ray9898

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    You're right...he had a rifle. The pistol was a simple example.


    If I stop your car for speeding and I see you have a gun in your hand as I walk up it would immediately change things and be treated the same as this. A situation is treated differently when a weapon at the ready is present, it is common sense. For example, you would treat an unarmed man or even a man with a holstered pistol who is knocking on your front door differently than a man holding a gun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  19. A rifle would make the situation more sensitive to the cop. A rifle, slung across the chest, with a mag in the well and the bolt closed makes it an even higher threat.

    And I've read enough of your posts to know that you are smart enough to understand that. You're playing dumb, but you know exactly why the police respond the way they do/did.




    Oh, and yes, walking down the street CAN be seen as a threat. someone calls the cops that there's a suspicious person walking down their street, they'll come to investigate. They get there, see you walking, and they're going to be on edge and order you to stop and keep you hands where they can be seen. This is both legal and proper. If you're dumb enough to keep walking or shove your hand in your pocket, your life is in YOUR hands, not the cops.

    And after you've stopped, explained that your car broke down and you're just walking through the neighborhood to get home (old lady saw you, didn't recognize you, and called the cops; that's a "suspicious person" call that most police will investigate, at least with a pass-by in the car), then they will likely say "thank you for your patience, and sorry for the inconvenience." But, again, you act like a jackass, you get treated like a jackass, plain and simple.
     
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    That's how Rambo started. You know how it ended. That sheriff got more than he bargained for.

    What if I'm a black guy walking down a white street? Legit stop and frisk?

    What if I'm a black guy with a rifle on my shoulder in a white neighborhood? Just walking down the street.

    Interested in hearing some Leo perspective on your post. Can a guy just walking down the street be put on the hood of your car?

    Basically you've just described a police state. If a LEO wants to put me on the hood of his car simply because I'm walking down the street he can kiss my ass. I'd probably stop momentarily and answer a quick question but I'm walking. It sounds like you say he'd be justified in killing me for that.

    I only hope someone gets video


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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013