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Want Your Ejection Problems Solved? Listen to Dave.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by 3/4Flap, Feb 19, 2012.


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  1. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin
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    I think you and I may be talking about different things. If you follow the leg of the extractor which contains the claw down to where it turns 90 degrees away toward the pivot pin. You will see a small pad on that arm. If you remove material from that pad the extractor will swing further in. My guess is the pad is there to allow for adjusting travel. They forgot to tell the Glock Armorers about it. Other wise what is the function of this pad?
     

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    #101 Dave Nowlin, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  2. ithaca_deerslayer

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    Wait, when did the "ejector slot" become part of this discussion?
     

  3. 3/4Flap

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    Since I screwed up and hammered "ejector" when I meant "extractor".

    Thanks and glad it came from an Ithaca fan.

    Me, too.
     
  4. ak103k

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    I tend to agree with Ken here, and what hes saying makes sense.

    If you use the face of the loaded chamber indicator as a reference, when there is no round present, the indicator is flush with the slide. Put a clean factory round in the gun, and the indicator now sits 0.031" higher than the slide. That leads me to believe that with a round in the gun, the shoulder is also going to be the same distance off its "rest" in the slide, and never will bottom out.

    For me, the jurys still out, as Im right back where I was, with reloads having the issue, and factory rounds functioning fine, even with what I think is a worn extractor.
     
  5. 3/4Flap

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    Beat me to it.

    Yup.

    The extractor needs;

    1} to move freely in/out during the entire rearward slide process till the empty leaves the gun

    2} follow the case as the case moves along the bolt face

    Really, folks, there is a lot more going on here than the "Limpwristing Did It!!" and "Use Better Ammo!!" crowd would have you believe.

    Some of them may be good parts swappers, but they are surely no gunsmiths.
     
    #105 3/4Flap, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  6. bentbiker

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    An easy test of what ken is saying: If you have an LCI extractor and it is flush with the slide when the chamber is empty and it stands out as designed when the chamber is loaded, then that shoulder is not limiting rotation. If you have brass that is worn enough to defeat the LCI, you need new brass. Has anyone had success taking material off the shoulder WITHOUT also polishing the top and bottom of the extractor and/or working on the claw?

    Edit: Just realized AK said almost exactly the same thing -- but faster.
     
    #106 bentbiker, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  7. 3/4Flap

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    Read my post above.

    I believe I also said the same thing three or four pages ago, or on one of the other 42 "Glock ejection sucks" threads running now. I can't remember exactly where.

    To repeat; The extractor actually moves as the case slides across the breech face. Reducing the shoulder or "pad" as Dave called it allows the extractor to maintain contact with the case head for a very short period of extra time.

    I actually, as I've done the work on mine, come to believe the freeing up of the extractor in the slide slot is more important, but it may be that this additional time also proveds added benefit.
     
  8. Terry C.

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    Okay, I promised a pic and here it is. This is how my stoned extractor looks . . .

    [​IMG]

    The only surfaces touched were the top and bottom. And I did it as Dave described, on a flat hard Arkansas stoned lubed with honing oil.

    The gritty and binding extractor movement is what I had originally. It was also very difficult to get out of the slot during disassembly. Now it moves freely and will drop out under its own weight.
     
  9. tinman517

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    Although, I thankfully have never experienced any of the issues, which you folks have had . . . I have to admire the " Can do/Can fix " attitude, here.
     
  10. dusty_dragon

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    i had the probs with a G17 gen.3 with an extractor that moved free and fell out on its own while disassembling. everyone (even in this board) called me a limp wrister and stated i should use more powerful ammo. what really did it for my G17 was getting a .40 ejector installed and a NON LCI extractor. that did the job.

    nice to here, that i wasn't the only one called a "limp wrister"

    but i'm still very interested in this topic and admire all the brainwork here, perfect guys, that's what i call real enthusiasm, really great work here.

    i still have a question:
    what exactly do you mean with a dipped and a non-dipped extractor, where should the "dip" be, that differs one from the other and which is older and which newer, and which will work better out of the box?
     
  11. ken grant

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  12. eaglefrq

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    I have a Gen 4 G19 brass to the head and a Gen 3 G26 with zero problems.

    I swapped the extractors and the G26 still had zero issues and the G19 still had some brass to the head. It appears in my case, the extractor is not the issue.

    My thinking by switching them the 26 would develop problems and the 19 would be solved, but that didn't happen.
     
    #112 eaglefrq, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  13. Dave Nowlin

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    My Gen 3 27 doesn't give problems either. That's why I studied it to help figure what to do to the G30SF. I really don't think any of the 26s or 27s seem to have this problem. There is evidently some very minor difference in the geometry that we aren't seeing. This problem seems to exist in the mid & full size pistols. There must be some minor difference in the way the slot is cut in the slide for the exxtractor as well as some variations from gun to gun in this respect. This would indicate that if these slides are cut on CNC someone isn't checking for tool wear as often as they should. Then again it may be a combination of that and poor quality of the molded parts. More gun manufacturers seem to be going to these MIM parts and they tell us they are good On the other hand Kimber's quality has been going downhill with these parts as well. Do you suppose we may be recognizing a trend.
     
  14. 3/4Flap

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    I wonder what the slide speed of the little guns is.

    SOME lg frame pistols exhibit LESS problems with higher recoiling ammunition of whatever bullet weight. This is at the core of Radian and others' continuous admonition not to use "weak" {sic} ammunition, I think.

    thus, even a poorly made extractor MIGHT work fine in a smaller frame pistol. Just a theory.

    As to why the larger frame pistols seem to be problematic even with extractors that work in the smaller ones, well, the above explains it; the "bad" extractor needs to be worked on regardless of the fact that it might work well in a dinky-frame pistol. Again, I'm not being dogmatic, just making a suggestion.

    Extraction from a semi and full auto gun is a wondrous thing. It is a FAR more complicated process than many assume.

    For a time I owned two Stemple 76/45 submachine guns. From time to time one demanded attention to the extractor and then started breaking extractors. a cheap part, I kept fixing it and studying the process of extraction and came to realize this is a "process". and in a liquid-framed pistol {as the Glock appears to be under highspeed photograhpy during the firing cycle} it must be complex indeed!

    And then there are those guns that just plain make extraction a non-issue like many Browning A5's. They just WORK.

    I remember my father-in-law's old Belgian that fired thousands of rounds of shot on ducks and geese and...did so with one of its extractors missing. i eventually got around to a detail strip and added the extractor where it needed to be...or didn't need to be as the case was.

    Yes, gun mechanisms are fascinating.

    You Norwegians will know what I mean when I say many of us have "kruttsjuke!"

    Yes, it is a disease... :)
     
  15. byf43

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    Wow!!!!!!!:wow:

    GREAT information in this thread!!

    I've been reading on other forums about guys ready to throw their Glocks into the trash (well, not literally!) regarding the extraction/ejection issues.
    (One guy even repeats over and over again about the 'cover-up' and lack of recall for "E Series" Glocks, etc., etc., etc.)

    If anyone is old enough to remember the 'good ole days' of 1911s, the 'pros' would TUNE their extractors or TWEAK their extractors (and ejectors, too!) to make the pistol perform better.

    They used to take a new 'virgin' case and insert it into the breech and see how well the extractor held the case to the breechface.
    IF the extractor needed 'tuning' or 'tweaking', it was done.
    (Yes, they 'torqued' the extractor to give more tension, and honed the underside of the extractor 'lip' to allow the rim to 'slide' past it. Heck! I remember polishing the inside of the extractor, where the rim made contact.)

    I'm no 'pro', and I've tweaked and tuned a few 1911 extractors in my time.

    Dave Nowlin and 3/4Flap have done their homework!!!
    GREAT JOB!!!!!

    FWIW, all of my Glocks have performed perfectly (sofar!).
    I don't usually pay attention to where my empty/ejected cases are going, since I'm payin' attention to my target/sights, but, I've never had a piece of brass come back at me.
    (Luck???? Maybe.):supergrin:


    A little polishing and 'tweaking' is not a bad thing to do, IF you understand what you're doing (and why).
    These Glock pistols are mass-produced. They're not custom-built, one-off marvels from Gaston Glock's High Performance gunsmiths.

    Again, Dave Nowlin and 3/4Flap . . .
    Well done!!!!!:wavey:
     
    #115 byf43, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  16. 3/4Flap

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    Thank you very much.

    I like your injection of the 1911. On several other threads I've mentioned the 1911 as an example of a gun that has been modified in myriad ways JUST TO KEEP IT RUNNING!!!

    I was a 1911 fan for many years, and used one for stock shooting for years, but good heavens, while the gun is certainly one of the GREATS, it has warts all over it...bred into it.

    A can-be short lifeexpectancy of sear notches, loosening of plunger spring assemblies, and YES, EXTRACTOR issues as well.

    As I've mentioned before; Guys; look at the opening of the ejection port that occured on almost all 1911's some 30 or so years ago. THAT is a fix one guy on the SIGForum used to fix Glock ejection problems...and it worked!

    These darn things are devices and as such they get tied up sometimes, and sometimes companies do stuff that totally mucks up their own product; witness the ups and downs and finally down and outs of the Winchester firm; the post-64 M70 abortion, the switch back to the pre-64 action, then the slide down in QC of all their guns; cheapening processes, eliminating fitting so you could look clean thru the wrist of the 94's and see daylight on the other side!

    And rugers, my FAVORITE bolt action rifles inthe M77MKII/Hawkeye series. I rebed, fix the trigger and bevel the ejector edges and slot edges on every single one I buy...or they don't work right!

    Guys, SIG's are done. Smith M&P's have warts. Walther PPQ's are perfect, the rage, but just wait a while!

    So now we have Herr Gaston Glock rolling over, rubbing his eyes, popping a squat and dropping a deuce in his own bed.

    Hey, it happens!

    You want a good, functioning gun?

    Fix it yourself or sit around and wait for the company to do it... :whistling:

    Or, STOP LIMPWRISTING AND USE BETTER AMMO!!! :rofl:
     
  17. ken grant

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    Anyone know where I can get NON-LCI extractors?
    Where to get NON-DIP LCI extractors?

    I did purchase an extractor for an older pistol without the angle cut to match the slide but have not tried it yet.
    Hoping to find some older ones with the angle cut.
     
    #117 ken grant, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  18. diamondd2

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    Probably because the slides are actually out of spec. That's why Glock won't talk, way too much money to replace all them slides. So, adjusting your extractor to to fit the slide is the way to go.

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  19. bentbiker

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    Best I can do is this one with the dip across the top edge. The old ones had a totally flat top edge. There have been posts saying that brand new guns were again shipping with non-dipped extractors (insinuating that Glock had returned to the old design/process. That is not correct -- at least not all. My new Gen4 G19 with a test-fire date of 1/30/12 still has the dip. However, the tightness exhibited by a previous dipped extractor was absent, I experienced no issues in first 100 rds. As I typed this, it just occurred to me that I need to try the old "tight" dipped extractor in the Gen4 and find out whether the extractor caused the tightness, or whether the slot caused it.
    [​IMG]


    This one from Butch has a circle around the area that is dished out, but you have to have the extractor out of the gun to see/feel that surface:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. voyager4520

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