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Want Your Ejection Problems Solved? Listen to Dave.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by 3/4Flap, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Sorry Topknot. I just pulled the thing apart again and worked on it some more. wish I saw your post before I was done.

    OK:

    This time I allowed the feel of the extractor to be the guide. First, I put my finger in the slide and moved the extractor back and forth. It is better than it was originally but I could still feel very definite hanging up at several points thru its arch.

    I removed the extractor and sure enough, I could see where my previous polishing is, but also see that there were still ridges. Like I said, the first time I polished the sides I was very careful. I wish I know what is the specification dimension of the part, but I do not.

    However; IMO only one of two options exist;

    EITHER;

    1} The ridges are in-spec, which means the main body of the extractor is OUT of spec.

    OR;

    2} The main body of the extractor is in-spec and the ridges are OUT of spec.

    Folks, BOTH cannot be within specification for the part.

    So, with a "what the hell", I stoned the sides smooth of almost all the ridges. There are only faint lines now in a couple spots. Ridges are gone.

    And guess what...

    Upon reassembly, SO ARE THE HESITATIONS OF MOVEMENT ALONG THE ARCH OF TRAVEL.

    Look, I would expect a moving part to move smoothly. Mine didn't at all. Now it does, with only the faintest of ultra-slight hesitation occuring which upon oiling goes away. I suspect if I eliminated those faint ridges I'd eliminate even the last of the slight hesitation.

    Whatever I did to function {I don't know yet, haven't shot it} I know I removed the grinding feeling of the extractor travel.

    I have a HUNCH that this cannot be a bad thing. Shooting will prove it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  2. Very good info here in this thread! It looks like you guys found the cure. Good job!

    I also noticed that the extractor of my newly made G23 gen4 moves completely different in it's slot than in my "older" gen4's. The extractor of the new one moves nice and free when I move it with my fingers. That was not the case with my older gen4's, there was lot's of binding and empty's to the head before I exchanged the extractors.
     


  3. Just checked with 6 shots using the right-hand grip that usually produces the worst results. Also only loaded 3 per mag as the last few are usually the worst performers.

    3 rounds of PMC 115 FMJ, 3 rounds of RWS 124 FMJ.

    Results; ALL ejected cases landed between 3 and 4 O'Clock TO MY RIGHT virtually in the same place as they land when I shoot the gun LEFT-handed!

    OK, I know these last 6 rounds are not the final word, but I'm calling it THE {tentative} FIX.

    Period.

    Look, unless Glock has truly fixed the binding issue, just getting new extractors is not necessarily EVER going to help. The binding in the extractor slot must be eliminated.

    OH...and my gun has the 336 ejector, too.

    Now, since Gen 4 guns suck and are total pieces of crap, I'm wondering if anyone has a bad-ejecting Gen 4 9x19 they'd like to sell cheap. I'll be glad to talk. I mean, seriously, your gun is garbage. :D ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
    lwold19 likes this.
  4. Keyhole

    Keyhole

    1,363
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    Dec 28, 2005
    Houston, TX
    LOL. Nice try.
     
  5. Keyhole

    Keyhole

    1,363
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    Dec 28, 2005
    Houston, TX
    I did the same thing, polished the top and bottom extractor ridges down until they were somewhat smooth and faint, and it solved my straight-back-ejection issues.
     
  6. OK, just back from the range.

    Took two 17's with me, the one I fiddled with the extractor, and a 17 RTF I use in my carry rotation for something to compare (and just in case the other was a total flop :) ).

    Ammo was 300 rounds of my reloads and a 100 round value pack of Winchester white box.

    I shot 150 rounds of my reloads out of the 17 with the cleaned up extractor, and got 8 cases to my face and head. The brass that did eject clear, did seem to fall in a more regular pattern on the ground though.

    Shot 150 rounds of reloads out of the RTF, and had 2 to the head.

    I then shot the whole 100 rounds of WWB out of the gun with the cleaned up extractor, and it didnt miss a beat. Not one case even close to my head, and all cases went basically in the same general area on the ground as the first lot.

    Typically with this gun and that extractor, what I was seeing today as far as getting bonked with brass, was about what I was seeing just before I changed it out the first time. After the change to the second, new extractor, things have been a little better, maybe around half of what I had today in the same number of rounds, but I still get them. The factory ammo running without a blip is what Ive had all along, or at least as best as I can remember. I really dont shoot all that much factory, so its probably really not a fair comparison, but I dont seem to have the issue when I do shoot factory.

    One thing too with the reloads, theres no real pattern or regularity as to the number of cases to the face. Sometimes I get a bunch to the face, other times, hardly any, and even none. Usually its at least a couple though. I think its all just a matter of how far along the brass is in the process, how bad the rim is chewed up, and how the extractor happens to grab it at the time. Its also not like I have numbered cases with a documented history to tell me which one is doing what and why. All I know is, it mostly, if not always, seems to only happen with my reloads, and seems to get progressively worse, as that lot gets older.

    What I think Im going to do is, put the "newer" extractor back in, after I clean it up a little, and see how that goes. Im not really expecting a change in whats been going on, but hey, you never know. If it does change, then I get to drive myself even more crazy trying to figure out why. :)
     
  7. jw38

    jw38

    422
    1
    Jun 25, 2010
    My kind of Guy. If ever shtf, 3/4 is the kind of person I want next to me.
     

  8. First, thanks jw. I appreciate that.

    AK: THANKS for reporting.

    This issue is a bu-bear, isn't it?

    My gun hits me in the face or along my right arm RIGHT HANDED ONLY with every type of FACTORY ammo I've tried.

    Far less so since I did the initial cleanup.

    Now, just a moment ago I pulled the slide off my G19 which is a 2010 made gun. The extractor moves smoothly and I have had no problems with this gun yet.

    I may try to shoot some more today and see what the second go-round did for my G17.
     
  9. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin Fisher of Men

    297
    9
    Dec 20, 2011
    Savannah, Tn.
    I'm going to give a very simple answer and the rationale behind it at this point. Undoubtedly some of you already know this but for those who don't I believe this information will be useful. When polishing the top and bottom of the extractor you absolutely need a very flat hard Arkansas stone and just a bit of honing oil. Take the extractor in your hand and add a small amont of honing oil to the face of the stone and lay the top of the extractor flat on the stone and move it from side to side on the stone. Stop occassionaly and look at your work. When 50% to 60% of the side is shiny you can stop. The shiny portion is now your bearing surface and the remainder is slightly recessed and will touch nothing. Now turn the extractor over and do the same to the bottom of it. When finished degrease the extractor and slightly oil it and put it back in the pistol. When you pivot it now it should feel smooth as a babies behind. For those who shoot reloads as I do, you must look at the part and realize where it sits against the pistol when pivoted in completely. This is what limits how far in it can pivot. Remove a very small amount of material from the portion of the extractor that hits the slide and stops the pivoting motion. By removing a very small amount you are allowing the extractor to move in just a little farther to allow for brass wear. While doing this also examine the hook of the extractor and see how flat it lies on the face of the case. If only the very tip touches the case and the rest is very slightly raised above the case, then you must do some very careful polishing on the hook to allow it to lie flat on the case when pivoted in fully. This gives more consistent retention of the case head by the extractor. This will yield more consistent ejection. As Forrest Gump said, "now that's all I'm going to say about that".:supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  10. dusty_dragon

    dusty_dragon

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    Dec 11, 2007
    how can you differ the newer gen.4 extractor from the older gen.4 extractor?

    i mean gen. 4 isn't old itself and has 2 different extractors and 2 different ejectors till now.
    the ejectors have different numbers, okay, but what about the exctractors?
     
  11. The older ones don't work.

    The newer ones don't work well.

    ;)

    Actually, a good question.
     
  12. Aquagear

    Aquagear

    305
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    Aug 29, 2010
    Sparks Nv.
    Dave just a quick question, dose your gun have the dull gray finish on the slide or the shiny black finish? I was thinking last night after reading this thread that the grey finish is a little rougher and could hinder the extractor movement, the older black finish is slicker. Most of the newer guns have the grey finish, this could be a minor factor
     
  13. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin Fisher of Men

    297
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    Dec 20, 2011
    Savannah, Tn.
    The finish on my slide is gray and somewhat grainy looking when you examine it closely. In fact when I was working on the trigger in my G30SF I noticed that the slide stop lever had a very rough finish on it. So rough that it didn't move as freely as I thought it should. I took my Dremel and some polishing compound to the portion close to where the frame pin goes through. I didn't remove any finish from the portion you see when it is installed on the pistol. The oxide finish doesn't seem to be done well on the small parts of these pistols.
     
  14. jw38

    jw38

    422
    1
    Jun 25, 2010
    OK Guys - I grew up with the saying, the proof is in the pudding. I think the "proof" is in now. I just got back from the indoor range that I shoot at every few days. Did something different today. Left my football helmet and goggles in the bag. Set out my 19 with 100 rounds of 115 fmj and a box of 50 rounds of 124 jhp. Set out my 27 with a box of 50, 180 jhp. Out of 200 rounds between the two Glocks, not the first case on my head, chest, chin or anywhere other than a nice pile in the floor. Granted in a small indoor booth, cases can bounce around some. NOT THIS TIME. My 19 & 27 were flawless! Like an earlier op said - somebody needs to be billing Glock for this information. May I suggest that 3/4 & Dave send an invoice on to Gaston for this repair shown on Glock Talk. Thanks Fellows - Whoever would have thought something so simple would be a cure for such a big problem.
     
  15. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin Fisher of Men

    297
    9
    Dec 20, 2011
    Savannah, Tn.
    And the bashful little fellow with the red face who wasn't really looking for praise bows and says "Thank you".
     
  16. ken grant

    ken grant

    1,831
    246
    Apr 3, 2004
    middle ga.
    I fail to understand what effect removing material from the extractor's inner shoulder does for better ejection.

    I know it lets the hook move closer to the center but a cartridge in place holds the extractor away from the center even before material is removed.

    It seems to me that the extractor shoulder has no effect at all with a cartridge in place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  17. Dave Nowlin

    Dave Nowlin Fisher of Men

    297
    9
    Dec 20, 2011
    Savannah, Tn.
    i beg to differ with you Ken. On my G30SF the extractor didn't pivot in far enough for a reliable hold. It does now. The other point is when more travel is possible then the extractor can grip reloads better as the case head wears. As the extractor pivots inward more it also pivots closer to the breech face.

    I promise I don't wish to argue with anyone about this. I'm just sharing my experiences as is Mr.Flap. We are sharing our experiences in the hope that they will help others with the same problem.
     
  18. ken grant

    ken grant

    1,831
    246
    Apr 3, 2004
    middle ga.
    I don't argue but just don't understand how the inner shoulder comes into play with a cartridge in place. In all my Glocks, the cartridge make the extractor move outward and the shoulder doesn't touch anything.

    Whoops!!!! I may have figured it out.
    As the barrel unlocks and drops down, the case moves down the breechface and extractor as well.
    Maybe at this point the extractor shoulder bottoms out and stops any farther inward movement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  19. Great news, jw!

    HAHAHA!!!

    The whole thing is really quite hilarious, isn't it!??

    How many "experts" even here screamed "LIMPWRIST!!!" and "AMMO!!!" as the cause of "non-existent" Glock problems?

    Truth is always better than fiction and YOU JUST CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!

    Tomorrow is my turn for another go-round. Will report.

    The ABSOLUTE GLOCK TORTURE TEST;

    "SHOOTING WITH THE RIGHT HAND ONLY."

    Good heavens, what's next...dragging it behind a truck?
     
  20. captdreifus

    captdreifus aSun666

    1,593
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    Jul 24, 2008
    Tempe, Arizona
    I polished my extractor last night after reading this thread.

    Previously, I had about 2/10 (20%) of the casings come back and hit my head or the top of my head. After the polish to remove the "lip" or cast mark on the top of the extractor, I had great results.

    As of 45 minutes ago, I finished firing a string of 350 rounds. Ammo that I shot were Speer 115gr Lawman, Winchester 147gr Ranger-T, and Winchester 147gr Super-X. Out of that string of fire, I only had 3 or 4 casings come back and hit my head. I consider this a MAJOR improvement.

    Granted, I only removed material "polish" the top side of the extractor. I did not remove any material on the underside nor from the "shelf" or "shoulder" area. I will further test with those areas polished this weekend.

    It is gratifying that my Generation 3 Glock 19 has made such improvements. I was pretty excited that I could fire magazine after magazine without HOT casings coming back to my face.

    I will report back when I have polished the other areas of the extractor and fire another few hundred rounds.

    A Happier Glock Customer,
    Captdreifus
     
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