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Want Your Ejection Problems Solved? Listen to Dave.

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by 3/4Flap, Feb 19, 2012.


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  1. GaryC

    GaryC
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    :bowdown:
     

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  2. Aquagear

    Aquagear
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    I did what Dave did to his extractor to fix my newer Gen 3 ,17 it worked fine. I actually used a casing against the breach face as a guide to get a firmer hold on the rim, and basically tuned the extractor for a better grip. The extractor is a cast part, not machined so some are not perfect. I think a little careful cleanup would help with some of the guns that are having problems. I took very little metal of mine just enough to improve the grip with very fine stones, so if you try this be careful (a little goes a long way) :wavey:
     

  3. voyager4520

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    Which of these two spots are you guys talking about? Or neither?

    1. [​IMG]

    2. [​IMG]

    On the "new" extractor that came in my G27, I noticed some pretty extreme wear on spot #1.
     
    #23 voyager4520, Feb 20, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  4. Keyhole

    Keyhole
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    +1. Top and bottom polish ALONE fixed my issues.
     
  5. Aquagear

    Aquagear
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    #1 is the area just be cautious of removing to much, I would suggest a light polish and then a test fire. It is not an expensive part but going to far will ruin it.
     
  6. 3/4Flap

    3/4Flap
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    Correct.

    #1.

    And yes, don't go too far.

    Again; tho it is tempting, and possibly correct to assumed the EXTRACTOR is to blame, its bearing surface inside the slide COULD be partly or wholly involved. Mod to the extractor is of course preferable to possibly ruining the frame.

    It's just that there is so much we don't know about actual Glock manufacturing processes that we must work to some degree in the dark.

    I also like Dave's idea of an increased-strength extractor spring. I do not see much downside to this and do see how it could help.

    I also see no worldly need for the complex part that the Glock extractor is. I just don't get it. The thing looks completely over-engineered to me. It totally lacks intuitive "simplicity" that the Glock basically exhibits.
     
  7. English

    English
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    I posted a clearly elucidated hypothesis explaining erratic ejection from Glocks a few months back which fits this fix very well.

    In essence, the cartridge case does not have time to fall out of position. The slide moves about 1 inch before the case hits the ejector and it travels at about 1.5fps. That lasts about 0.125 seconds and that is not time to fall enough to matter, especially since the case is held by the chamber for most of that time.

    More important is the fight between the friction between case and ejector and between case and extractor. If the friction at the extractor side is weak the case will tend to be pulled out from the extractor and will tend to pivot about the ejector rather than the extractor. Rather than its C of G being rotated forward and outward it rotates backward and outward, but the outward component reduces as the case rotates. This movement is limited because the case is blocked by and impacts the breechface. Without that impact, if it could get to 45 degrees, its momentum would be directly backwards.

    In what we can consider as normal extraction, by the time the case has rotated 45 degrees its C of G is just about level with the port and if it is still constrained by the extractor its momentum will be taking it directly out of the port. As the slide is still moving backwards the case will be ejected further to the right than staight to the side. In the extreme of abnormal ejection where the rotation is entirely about the ejector tip the C of G of the case, backwards at 20 or 30 derees from straight out through the port ends up with the case bouncing around in the port rather than being ejected cleanly.

    As the surface the ejector impacts is inconsistent, with some places rougher than others and some places with indented writing, the grip the ejector gets will be very variable. Bouncing around in the open port is variable in itself but when we add the variable initial conditions we get wide variation in the direction of ejection leading to stove pipes, double feeds and a scater of directions, including to the left, when the case does get thrown clear.

    Many suggest wearing a hat and getting used to being hit on the head and I don't think they are intending to be humerous. In fact, any erratic ejection is a serious fault because it can put the pistol out of action when you need it most. Glock should have faced a class action well before now for selling a self defence pistol which does not meet the standards required for a self defence weapon.

    English
     
  8. 3/4Flap

    3/4Flap
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    This ain't new stuff, either, folks.

    Guess why the internal extractors of the BHP and SIG's became external?

    Guess what one of the most serious weak spots in the 1911 is?

    Yup.

    STAR saw the problem and pretty well dealt with it in the '20's, tho QC didn't keep up with their surperb designs.

    And....

    The fix posted and pictured on another forum promises to be one more in a long line of attempts to deal with the Plague; Cutting down of the slide at the ejection port.......A FIX THAT HIT 1911-TYPE GUNS 30 YEARS AGO.

    Getting rid of a fired case from inside a semiautomatic handgun is not as easy as spitting out a worn out dip of chew.
     
  9. voyager4520

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    I tried the White Sound Defense HRED EDP assembly which uses a stronger spring and it didn't make much difference in the ejection with the original extractor that my G27 came with.
     
  10. Dave Nowlin

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    English, I agree with your thoughts. The problem is, over here in the colonies we don't understand your thought process when it is explained that concisely. You need to dumb down your way of expressing your thoughts for us.:supergrin:
     
  11. jw38

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    Just finished my 19 and took it into our back yard to shoot 5 quick rounds. According to my Wife, all 5 cases were in about the same consistent line to the right side. I'm Happy. No more embarrassment at the Range because I would get my football helment and gogles out. Now off to my 27. Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #31 jw38, Feb 20, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  12. AA#5

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    I don't think so. Guess what type of extractor my Wilson CQB has? Internal & it has 6,200 rounds without a malfunction. My Uzi also has an internal spring-steel extractor & even looks exactly like a 1911 extractor. More than 28,000 rounds without a malfunction & it's the original part.

    I think it's a design & quality control issue.
     
  13. Officer's Match

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    Let's see here, how did that Kimber external extractor 1911 fix thing go? :whistling:
     
  14. Aquagear

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    Did you get it to work by cleaning up the extractor?
     
  15. Z71bill

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    Maybe we need a sticky for

    "Glock FLUFF AND BUFF" :rofl:
     
  16. jw38

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    Little of both - follow Dave's post here. As I look at the extractor in the frame - I lightly sanded the top and bottom sides. Turned extractor over, sanded "shelfs" A&B. On the Claw itself, I took a small stone to clean up the ends that wrap over the case. Good, cleaning, lube and reassemble. Like another Post said, someone needs to be charging Glock for this fix. This fix is better than sliced bread.
     
  17. English

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    Don't know about Kimber but the S&W 1911s seem to work without problems and using the grip safety to lift the firing pin block instead of the trigger is a nice improvement. You have to wonder what Colt was doing all those years!

    English
     
  18. kamonjj

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    As a glock armorer, I would definitely be inclined to do this. I'm not the typical "part replacer" that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I was literally upstairs putting together a long range precision rifle I am building. I was just fitting the action to a bottom metal.

    Anyways, it seems as though (I for one dont have any issues with any of my glocks and never had) that a light polish of the extractor will happen with use. So, I for one don't see an issue with polishing it but, it may shorten its life depending how much you remove. When we are talking 1000ths of an inch between working 100% and having erratic ejection, I'd just say be careful. A little will probably go a long way in terms of getting where you want it to be.

    If your ejection is all over the place and you already replaced the extractor/ejector/rsa/ whatever else is said to be causing it. A little fine tune polish certainly couldn't hurt. I would do mine but, my glocks fire great, eject great, and work like glock perfection should. Maybe its my hand loads (wait did I just say that out loud)
     
  19. English

    English
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    Another 2 to 300 years of evolution should do it. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/greensupergrin.gif

    Actually, some things have a limit to how far you can dumb them down. I am not in a position to work on this problem practically and none of my Glocks have this problem. I am fairly sure that your solution is correct. If the movement of the extractor to grip the rim is blocked by this shoulder before it is pressing on the rim, then a stronger spring won't help.

    English
     
    #39 English, Feb 20, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  20. Dave Nowlin

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    Agreed. But removing enough metal to get better and more complete contact with the case head and adding a slightly stronger spring should.
     
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