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Vote Like Your Lady Parts Depend on it - Obama

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by redbaron007, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. RenoF250


    Feb 23, 2008
    Go get some fresh air.

    Why do you kooky liberals want to control my handy parts and stop me from shooting people? I am not making you shoot anyone.

    It is the same logic. We, as a society, look out for the rights of others. As far as I am concerned you can do whatever you want to yourself but in regards to abortion there is another PERSON involved and that person's rights trump the mothers rights to skank around without repercussions.

    Why is that so hard to understand?
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  2. KalashniKEV


    Sep 24, 2003
    No... she does.


    SHE got pregnant!

    Baby or clumpy?

    I think you're assigning a public personality to a clump of cells. A clump of cells does not any rights. If it did I would feel terrible about cleaning my shower in the corners.

    If a clump of cells is assigned full rights under the constitution, does a baby (a real child- BORN) have a right to US citizenship if the DNA was initially combined on US soil, but was born into this world (became a life) in a foreign land?

    I don't get it...


    Thanks for finally getting down to the roots of your belief. Women who have unprotected sex out of wedlock are skanks and sluts. They deserve to be punished. They should carry the fetus and carry the Shame, so that every time they look at their child they know they are whores.

    You'd probably throw rocks at them if you could get away with it.


  3. CarryTexas


    Aug 8, 2002
    Huh? What? The point was that the responsiblity was to not get pregnant in the first place.

    I guess you're okay with partial birth abortion? Heck if a baby doesn't deserve rights until they're born.... 39.5 weeks = "clumpy"
  4. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

    Aug 27, 2011
    South Carolina
    I would not throw rocks, but if they want birth control I'd make them buy it with their own money.
  5. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)
    And this is why you're going to continually lose this argument.

    If you don't want an abortion, don't get one......Its not that hard.

    But stop trying to tell other people, they have to beleive what you do, and live like you do.
  6. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)

    And perhaps if we hadn't drug the issue out so long and so far, trying to make it illegal, we wouldn't have saddled all the working class with having to provide it.

    Well played 'Merica
  7. kensb2

    kensb2 pistol n00b

    Mar 19, 2012
    Apache, OK
    No, but they will make me pay to let someone else have an abortion. Want to call abortion a day? No partial-birth abortions, and I don't have to pay for them, you do (or your insurance), and you can abort as many babies as you see fit.
    I don't think abortion is right personally, but that's the compromise I'd be willing to make so we can get the issue out of politics, and back to letting the so called 'bible-thumpers' preach about it.
  8. racerford


    Apr 22, 2003
    DFW area
    This would make an interesting court case. So if a an illegal immigrant women was in the Arizona desert and giving birth to a baby right on the border (parallel and straddling it) what country would it have citizenship in, assuming the Father was not a US citizen? They was a case where a child was born to a US citizen in a foreign country but the child was not the biological child of the women that gave birth nor of American citizen father. The US government said the child was not a US citizen.
  9. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    Even better since you can't deport a us child to a different country, if rights are given at conception, does that mean an illegal alien who was impregnated in USA cannot be deported.

    I am sure people don't believe in deporting American citizens to other countries.

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  10. frank4570


    Jun 25, 2004
    How about this to settle the money issue?

    Each person who is taxed can elect to pay either for birth control/abortions, OR you can chose to be taxed to support welfare and those programs. But you have to pick one or it will be picked for you.
  11. NOLA_glock

    NOLA_glock Shrug Life

    Jun 5, 2008
    Now in DFW!
    One of the biggest factors in this argument, for some people, is that there is just no clear-cut definition for life -- neither under the broad umbrella of biological studies, nor colloquially.

    In any freshman bio101 class, on the very first day, the professor will make it clear that "life" cannot be defined absolutely, though they will give a handful of characteristics for what is accepted as things that living entities must do or be:

    Respond to external stimuli.

    Organized into cells.

    Reproduce (sexually or asexually).


    Maintain homeostasis.

    There will be others, but I understand some of them to be redundant (e.g. I would consider "adaptation" to be an extrapolation on "responding to external stimuli")

    Living things must conform to most or all of the characteristics described. That in itself gives rise to a rather convoluted process of filing some things into the "living" and "nonliving" bins -- not to mention the difficulty in determining what constitutes something that, for example, "responds to external stimuli".

    Nonetheless, I contend that we would all agree that a from a zygote onwards would be considered "living", by the biological "definition", as imperfect as it may be. I find this topic as bearing no importance on the argument other than in order for one to be a person, one must first be alive.

    The real issue is that of the point in development at which something should be considered a person protected by all of the laws we afford to people. This is where all bets are off, scientifically, as "person-ness" isn't really the kind of thing that can be quantified scientifically in the first place. I'd suspect that if we were to try to construct a rigorous definition of "person", it would be just as convoluted as that of life. That (again, just my opinion) seems to be one of the biggest issues of contention, and is why people tend to have very staunch feelings on the matter, not to mention why some people will talk of babies being murdered while others will speak about blastulae or fetuses being aborted. The problem with biological milestones separating "not yet a person" from "person" is that they are all necessarily arbitrary. Are you a person from conception? Implantation? From birth? Somewhere in between? This is where the real argument lies, though I don't see there being an absolute answer on the matter right now.

    I know where I stand on this issue, but I also realize that based on the way I understand the argument, it is nothing more than an arbitrary line I have drawn.
  12. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    How many people that believe in zero abortion believe in "pulling the plug" on a person who is a "vegetable"? Wouldn't society be obligated to protect those who can't protect themselves?

    Hasn't it been established in this thread that high level cognitive brain activity isn't a condition for human life?

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  13. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

    Aug 27, 2011
    South Carolina
    I'm about said all I'm gonna say on all of this but I'll answer this one.

    "Pulling the plug" is in no way the same thing. When you "pull the plug" you end the artificial (mechanical) means to keep someone alive who cannot survive without them.

    Abortion is different in that you are actually terminating the life.

    It gets complicated again in medical emergencies, since if the fetus cannot survive outside the body at that time it is a lot like pulling the plug (since if the mother dies, the fetus dies).

    Abortion in the case of rape is much more complicated, especially if a child is the one impregnated as I would tend to believe that a child is less likely to report the abuse or rape than an adult. IMO that is a situation where you have to decide which bucket of @@@@ to eat.

    The best analogy I can come up with is this:

    Pulling the plug would be like not helping someone change a flat tire. You didn't cause it but you aren't helping them either. Actually, it would be more like not helping them change a tire on a car about to blow it's engine. Abortion is puncturing the tire itself, regardless of the condition of the engine. It's not a perfect example but all I can come up with right now.
  14. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

    Jan 20, 2004
    Alaska, again (for now)
    A fetus can't survive without the mother.

    If the mother doesn't want the child, how is that any different than pulling the plug?
  15. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

    Aug 31, 2004
    Houston, TX
    That's not true. Of the four common standards for determining where life begins that are used in the Abortion debate, three of them have hard, quantifiable and measurable scientific cornerstones that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

    The Genetics standard - Creation of a unique, human genome.

    The Embryonic standard - Occurance of Gastrulation.

    The Neurological standard - Presence of measurable brainwave activity.

    Only the "viability outside of the womb" standard has no quantifiable scientific criteria behind it. If you feel differently, here's a challenge for you: Please define, in a quantifiable and scientifically supportable fashion, exactly what "viability outside of the womb" means, and do so in a way that would exclude two year-old infants who, like a late-term fetus, can neither feed nor sustain themselves outside of the womb absent constant adult intervention and support.
  16. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

    Aug 31, 2004
    Houston, TX
    I agree with everything you say and don't mean to give the impression that if you believe in science, you should oppose abortion (or anything similar).

    I do believe, however, that there is a middle ground between granting a developing fetus "all" of the rights of a person vs granting it "none" of them and treating it like a simple lump of tissue, to be discarded at will.

    We don't give minor children "all" of the rights of a person (at least an adult person), but we do grant them basic protections and acknowledge that they are, in fact, living entities worthy of preserving. I believe that the same basic recognition should be granted, at a minimum, to late-term (third trimester) unborn babies.
  17. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

    Aug 31, 2004
    Houston, TX
    Deleted Post (duplicate)
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  18. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

    May 16, 2005
    Where the buffalo roam
    There has been a great deal of lucid logic with supporting data provide here. Access to this kind of information is immensly helpful and would help anyone in making their own decisions about abortion, and this is where the issue should end. HH
  19. dango


    Jun 9, 2008
    Well,I'm standing here in front of the mirror. Panties,bra and silk stockings,I do look stunning but I just ain't feeling it!

    This year,coin toss , heads tails thing !:supergrin:
  20. RenoF250


    Feb 23, 2008