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Vihta Vuori Powder Data

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by kestrou, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,519
    21
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    That's getting some good zip on those 155gr GD's...
    Thanks for the great data Robert!
     
  2. You're welcome.
    I am planning to compare these two 155gr/1500fps rounds in "5 waterbuckets test" this summer. It took several months to collect enough buckets, but then cold winter days came...I wouldn't test it before summer cause I expect some shower for shooter and cameraman as well :embarassed:
     


  3. After 2 batches w. N105/212gr hardcast (which were not so bad anyway) http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1407651
    ... I decided to try a bit faster Vihtavuori 3N38. I found this powder to be more than ideal for 212gr hardcast bullets made by Target, Italy.
    Here's ballistic data and equipment used:
    - Glock 20 w. IGB 4.6" barrel, full supported
    - DPM 3-spring system (stronger "silver" main spring)
    - powder: Vihtavuori 3N38
    - primers: CCI 300 Large Pistol
    - brass: Starline, shot once in IGB barrel
    - bullets: Target 212gr hardcast (HB/BHN 23)
    http://www.targetbullets.it/hard-cas...ga_709223.html
    - temp: 11°C (52°F)

    load: 10.0gr COAL 1.261
    1168
    1161
    1148
    1160
    1164
    av. 1160 es 20.62 sd 7.48

    load: 10.3gr COAL 1.263
    1182
    1171
    1180
    1186
    1180
    av. 1180 es 14.94 sd 5.47

    load: 10.6gr COAL 1.263
    1220
    1203
    1198
    1196
    1207
    av. 1205 es 24.02 sd 9.48

    load: 10.8gr COAL 1.267
    1223
    1201
    1218
    1216
    1209
    av. 1213 es 22.59 sd 8.54

    load: 11.0gr COAL 1.270
    1232
    1225
    1213
    1222
    1211
    av. 1220 es 20.71 sd 8.66

    load: 11.2gr COAL 1.271
    1224
    1229
    1234
    1241
    1228
    av. 1231 es 16.01 sd 6.48

    load: 11.4gr COAL 1.273
    1250
    1246
    1250
    1232
    1235
    av. 1243 es 18.21 sd 8.54

    All loads were very precise, no keyholing. If shooter (me) did his part of job a hole was in 8 - 10 points range at distance 25m (27 yards).
    The only thing I dislike about these bullets is cleaning barrel aftermath. No significant lead fouling though, but spent a lot of time to clean it comparing to FMJ or JHP bullets.

    P.S.:Beside my usual protecting equipment I was using LE riot helmet w. face shield as well. All went good, even primers flattened only to usual acceptable limits.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  4. Jitterbug

    Jitterbug

    870
    5
    Aug 27, 2002
    Nice work Robert! I may need to pick up a pound of that.

    I visited the Vihtavuori website and couldn't find data for a 200 grain and Vihtavuori 3N38, where are you finding your data?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  5. Mostly here on GT and develop myself as well. So far I used 3N38 for lighter 10mm jacketed bullets, but hardcast bullets have less friction so after a bit too slow N105 I decided to give a try w. 3N38.
    I guesstimated myself where to start from.
    For the first time I got enhanced protection for loads testing - police riot helmet w. plastic shield covering a whole face. Better safe than sorry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  6. whenmonkeysfly

    whenmonkeysfly CLM

    355
    0
    Jul 11, 2006
    Florida
    Absolutey! I have/will wear Kevlar gloves when testing hotter loads. Thanks for sharing the data.

    -Jay
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  7. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,519
    21
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
  8. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Good to see some 3n38 info coming in. I haven't used it in the G20 yet but it does a stellar job with the 155 and 165gr .40's (only ones I've tested), so I suspect it should do great with 10mm too.
     
  9. Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  10. I made my own last week :supergrin:

    Here's ballistic data and equipment used:
    - Glock 20 w. IGB 4.6" barrel, full supported
    - DPM 3-spring system (weaker "yellow" main spring)
    - powder: Vihtavuori 3N38
    - primers: CCI 300 Large Pistol
    - brass: Starline & Winchester, shot once in IGB barrel
    - bullets: Hornady FMJ 200 gr
    - temp: 27°C (81°F)

    load: 10.0gr COAL 1.269
    1120, 1049, 1109, 1108, 1122, 1121
    av. 1105

    load: 10.6gr COAL 1.269
    1189, 1179, 1169, 1168, 1156, 1169
    av. 1168

    load: 10.9gr COAL 1.269
    1190, 1192, 1193, 1189, 1206, 1196, 1190
    av. 1194

    load: 11.2gr COAL 1.269
    1218, 1210, 1206, 1207, 1209, 1194, 1213
    av. 1208

    load: 11.4gr COAL 1.270
    1243, 1241, 1231, 1240, 1240, 1243, 1242
    av. 1240 es 12.53 sd 4.12

    load: 11.6gr COAL 1.270
    1246, 1241, 1246, 1241, 1235, 1242, 1228
    av. 1240 es 17.12 sd 6.40

    load: 11.8gr COAL 1.270
    1262, 1264, 1248, 1266, 1255, 1256
    av. 1259 es 17.64 sd 6.16

    load: 12.0gr COAL 1.270
    1271, 1272, 1266, 1265, 1258, 1255
    av. 1265 es 16.36 sd 6.70


    Mags were reinforced w. Arredondo springs, so no more slide overriding over the next round. Worked flawlessly.
    warning: Don't try this at home! Go to the range :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  11. RDub01

    RDub01

    76
    2
    Aug 5, 2012
    So Oregon
    Hi

    Shot some 180gr Speer TMJ's through a G20-SF with 3N38 powder.


    Glock 20SF with factory barrel and spring
    Rounds were seated to 1.26” COL
    Circles are 5½” at 25 yards
    Shooting was done off of a Caldwell Pistol Rest
    Velocities taken with an Oehler Mod 33 chronograph. Skyscreens centered 8’ from muzzle.

    [​IMG]



    Data on targets;

    Average velocity
    Velocity spread
    Standard deviation
    temperature

    Case head expansion;
    11.3grs is about max in this gun, maybe a bit less in warmerweather.
    I had an erroneous chrono reading on the 11.3gr string thatI didn’t catch, which screwed up the average, but I recall seeing velocities inthe low 1200’s
    10.4grs minimal expansion
    10.7grs .4335,.4335, .4335, .4330, .4336
    11.0grs .4339, .4335, .4336, .4337, .4336
    11.3grs .4340,.4338, .4339, .4340, .4342
    11.6grs .4339,.4346, .SMILEY, .4345, .4339

    I don't know why the groups were so far left and high..
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  12. RDub01

    RDub01

    76
    2
    Aug 5, 2012
    So Oregon
    Hi
    Shot some 180gr SpeerTMJ's through a G20-SF with N-105 powder.
    Glock 20SF with factory barrel and spring
    Rounds were seated to 1.26” COL
    Circles are 5½” at 25 yards
    Shooting was done off of a Caldwell Pistol Rest
    Velocities taken with an Oehler Mod 33 chronograph. Skyscreens centered 8’ from muzzle.


    [​IMG]



    11.1grs was somewhat compressed with the Speer 180 TMJ and12.0grs was even more so. N-105 is an extruded powder and it doesn’t meter as well as some others.
    11.1grs produced a not so great group.. It would seem N-105 doesn't like to be loaded down..
    11.7grs is as far as I want to go here with this gun.. 12.0grs gave head expansion larger than I want to go.
    Both 3N38 and N-105 maxed out at about 1200 fps in the factory barrel.

    11.1grs .4334,.4334, .4332, .4340, .4330
    11.4grs .4336,.4337, .4339, .4332, .4335
    11.7grs .4336,.4344, .4340, .4336, .4341
    12.0grs .4342,.4346, .4344, .4345, .4336

    Not sure why the groups were so far left and high..
     
  13. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Here is some fresh VV 3N38 data for you guys. I want some more of it but I don't ever see it locally. I think I had to order what 3N38 I do have over the internet.

    Anyways, the gun is my new G20 Gen4 10mm bone stock. About 70 degrees outside at roughly 1000 ft elevation. Low humidity (thank goodness).

    1x Midway (Starline?) brass, CCI LP primers. Velocities are averages.

    180gr Remington JHP, 11.5gr VV 3N38 @ 1.250": 1,344 fps (20 fps ES)

    200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 10.5gr VV 3N38 @ 1.250": 1,250 fps (8 fps ES!)

    Brass looked very good coming from the stock, somewhat loose barrel. I know I had some data from a year or two back that showed 11.6gr giving my 1,380 fps from my (then) 20sf and a KKM bbl, but wasn't sure whether it was the 4.6" or 6" one. Even in the stock barrel I wouldn't see any problems working up some more, but I'm not sure doing so is really needed, but it would be fun.

    I'm very pleased with both loads! Recoil was not bad, brass wasn't all dinged up or anything. Primers had slight flattening, but I stress slight. The 180gr Rem JHP is one of my favorite generic hollow points, and with the above load I would have no issues taking it into the field. The Beartooth 200gr WFNGC is probably my favorite serious .40/10mm bullet and at 1250 fps, it's gonna cut pretty deep into whatever it hits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  14. These are really great loads, congrats :thumbsup:

    I like 3N38 for hot 10mm loads too - very useful for jacketed bullets from 155 to 200gr and for 212gr hardcast (HB/BHN 23) as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  15. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Thank you, Robert. I've looked over the 3N38 loads you have posted in the past for somewhat of a guideline as to what to use in the stock setup. I didn't want to go real high in the stock barrel, but it seems like 3N38 is on the forgiving side (pressure wise!) and it's one of the most consistent powders I've ever used in both the .40 S&W and 10mm. I was surprised at how good the brass looked from the stock barrel putting out velocities like these!

    Oh yeah, I've got some 155gr and 165gr loads planned out too, as well as some 220gr data.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  16. I've been using custom IGB barrel, full supported. So take care and look for smileys on brass when using stock barrel.
    And also, with my stock barrel 180gr hardcast bullets started to spray all arround on 27 yards target at approx. 1200 fps. A little better w. plated bullets, but no problem w. jacketed bullets because stock barrel was meant and tested for jacketed bullets only IMO.
     
  17. littlejohn3rd

    littlejohn3rd

    14
    0
    Apr 16, 2011
    I just did some testing with 3N38 powder, after seeing Robert's results with it. I got some great results, I will definitely be using it from now on, at least for special loads, as it is expensive lol!

    155 gr Rainier, 3N38 powder, G20 w/6in. L.W. barrel, 5 shot strings. 1.250 c.o.l., Fed LP primers, Rem brass.

    1. 11.5 gr, 1360 avg, es 38; no pressure signs
    2. 12.0 gr, 1402 avg, es 49; no signs
    3. 12.5 gr, 1460 avg, es 22!; primers showing really slight flattening
    4. 12.8 gr, 1465 avg, es 48; primers show slight flattening, but case expansion still fine
    5. 13.1 gr, 1514 avg, es 59, primers more flattened, case expansion starting to show

    I stopped there as I was satisfied with velocities and not wanting any higher pressures. A 4.6 barrel would be approx 100 fps less.

    For comparison, 11.0 gr of 800-X did 1550 fps avg, es 17, but had slightly higher pressure signs than the 13.1 load, definitely hotter than what I would be comfortable with.

    13.3 gr of AA #7 did 1420 fps avg, es 22, which is the highest I go with #7, it has similar pressure to the 12.5 load.

    10.0 gr of Power Pistol did 1380 fps avg, es 13, no pressure signs whatsoever, this powder can go higher, but I did not load higher than book for this one yet.

    So velocities are not much less than 800-X, especially at similar pressures from what I saw. I would say that they are within 30-40 fps at the same pressure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  18. littlejohn3rd

    littlejohn3rd

    14
    0
    Apr 16, 2011
    Here is some more testing with 3N38 and 180 gr Winchester bullets. I use a 'Shooting Chrony', I think it may read a little low, but it has been consistent. My velocities seem low compared to Robert's and SDGlock23's, but since they are consistent I will post for the comparisons with other powders I tried that day as well. I will upgrade to a better chrono eventually!

    180 gr Winchester jhp, 3N38 powder, G20 w/ 6in L.W. barrel, 5 shot strings. 1.250 c.o.l., Fed LP primers, Rem brass.

    A 4.6 barrel with 180 gr bullets would be approx 80 fps less.

    1. 10.0 gr, 1242 avg, es 20; no pressure signs
    2. 10.5 gr, 1290 avg, es 17; primers very slightly flattening
    3. 11.0 gr, 1323 avg, es 16; primers slight flattening, case expansion still good
    4. 11.5 gr, 1373 avg, es 25; primers more flattened but still ok, case expansion still ok
    5. 12.0 gr, 1424 avg, es 15; primers getting too flat, case expansion now too much

    For comparison, 10.0 800-X did 1384 fps avg, es 37; similar pressure to the 11.5 load of 3N38. A little hot but still ok.

    12.0 gr of AA #7 did 1278 fps avg, es 21; too hot, similar to the 12.0 gr load of 3N38.

    14.5 gr of AA #9 did 1317 fps avg, es 31; no pressure signs whatsoever.

    8.7 gr of Power Pistol did only 1226 fps avg, es 32; not hot at all, no pressure signs,definitely room to go higher on this one, again just went with book for now.

    So again as with the 155 gr bullets, 3N38 was very close to 800-X for velocities with similar pressures.

    I have loads ready with 135 gr and 165 gr bullets, will be testing them soon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013