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Video captures Wisconsin police unlawfully detaining men open carrying ARs

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by SJ 40, Sep 12, 2013.

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  1. SJ 40

    SJ 40

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    Earlier this week, a video was posted on YouTube which demonstrated how Appleton, Wisconsin, police violated the rights of two men who were openly carrying AR-15s, which is legal in the state of Wisconsin.

    The two men were first held at gunpoint, then handcuffed and placed in the back of a squad car while the officers “investigated” the incident, only to find that the men had not broken any laws and there was no clear evidence to charge them with any crime.

    http://www.guns.com/2013/09/12/vide...ully-detaining-men-openly-carrying-ars-video/

    I think with what I heard on the recording If they are not sued they will be lucky. SJ 40
     
  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    So is it your position that LE can only detain someone if that person commits a crime?
     

  3. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

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    Hey more attention whores..... I'm sure they were just patrolling the streets looking for bad guys with that camera rolling


    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app
     
  4. eb07

    eb07 Sharkin'

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    and if they didn't detain them to verify they were stable in the head and could own the weapons, and they went on a shooting spree.... the police would have been crucified for not keeping the streets safe
     
  5. 2740dmx

    2740dmx

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    I am as staunch a gun rights advocate as they come....
    but that whole "let's carry a weapon that knowingly scares the populace and record the police doing their jobs" scenario is played out!

    Responsible gun owners do not need to open carry in order to prove a point.....If you truly want to exercise your right to open carry, go ahead, but to provoke situations so that you may then post videos of your "rights" being trampled....
    COME ON.....what cop wouldn't disarm you and detain you until they establish what is going on?
    :upeyes:
     
  6. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    If there is a lawsuit it will be interesting to see who gets how much.
     
  7. opto_isolator

    opto_isolator Extinct GOP

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    Huh, that's my old hometown where I grew up.....interesting.
     
  8. Jonesee

    Jonesee

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    Well now,,,
    This thread didn't go in the direction the OP planned...

    And, I agree. Total attention whores. They got what they wanted.
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...
     
  9. TK-421

    TK-421

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    I don't find it surprising that people are surprised when they get put in handcuffs for stupid stuff like this. It's the job of the police to keep citizens safe, and I don't see a problem with them stopping people who are openly carrying firearms, to make sure they're allowed to have the weapon and following the law.

    However, I do believe they need probable cause to stop you and talk to you, and just carrying a longarm shouldn't count as probable cause. I think they need to believe that a crime is being committed or about to be committed, instead of just stopping people willy nilly.

    But, if you're going to walk around with an AR, don't be surprised if you get stopped by the cops, and don't try to claim your rights are being trampled all over, unless they actually are. And in this case, it wasn't severe enough to warrant a youtube video.
     
  10. SJ 40

    SJ 40

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    Well Now the OP doesn't care what direction the tread goes or doesn't,I posted it as general information.
    The OP only has a concern with the increasing militarization of civil policing,did you listen to the recording.

    I know it is somewhat long but the officers involved said what they said,my best guess is with out any prompting.
    When they discovered a attorneys business card in one of the detainees wallet they tried to find something any thing as a reason.

    There are good and bad in all walks of life,civilians,police officers and politicians,the bad give the good a bad name. SJ 40
     
  11. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

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    they went out looking to get the attention of the police, and when they got it they complained?!?
     
  12. PIMking

    PIMking Im weird

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    retards like those two are what give those of us who OC with out a problem, and the gun community a bad name.
     
  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Probable cause is what gets you arrested and tossed in the pokey until you see the judge. Investigative detentions come from an articulable suspicion, aka reasonable suspicion, which is a significantly lower standard of certainty.

    These temporary detentions are by definition things which happen based on legal acts known to the cops. (Because if the cops knew of an illegal act, we'd be back at probable cause for an arrest.)
     
  14. as400guy1

    as400guy1

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    I wonder what the reaction would be if the people oc'ing were arabs in robes carrying ak's.

    Sent from my GT-P3113 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
     
  15. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    That all sounds like what police can legally do. In fact, I have litigated and won (as defense attorney for the police) on basically the same issue in federal court. The guy suing us was even detained and cuffed in a rural area, where he had been hunting and guns were not unusual.

    That seems to describe a legal and routine detention. Just because you didn't know that was the law doesn'tt make it something new.:upeyes:

    Reasonable suspicion to make that stop legal can come from no more than an odd looking person being in an oodd place at an odd time. Throw a couple of guns over their shoulders, of a type no usually carried around for self-defense, and you have about the easiest win for the police, ever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    No, they need less evidence than probable cause - they need no evidence or reason just to talk to you or ask you questions and only reasonable suspicion to involuntarily detain you, even in handcuffs. Carrying a long gun in a place where it is unusual to do so easily creates a legal stop, even if no crime has been committed. Nothing about this situation mentions stopping people "willy nilly"
     
  17. earthworm

    earthworm

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    Fortunately these guys (as I suspect most of us at some time in the past) cannot be charged with the crime they really committed:being a dumba**.
     
  18. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    Absolutely correct. Funny how this measure fails when applied to illegals as that would be "profiling" according to the Libs. :whistling:
     
  19. Lior

    Lior GUNS=FREEDOM

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    Hopefully there will be a point in history in which people can carry guns freely other than for the purpose of making political statements and educating law enforcement.
     
  20. Ducowti

    Ducowti

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    There was a recent vid/"experiment" I think a father and son pulled where the father distantly filmed his son dressed in Arab garb on a street corner holding a prop RPG. Don't recall how it played out but police did respond. Must've been noneventful else i'd have recalled more.


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