Mas, Before I joined, I read a few some of your replies and saw some interesting things. I have been trained in the use of force 3 tied 5 color model for years in the military. I wondered about an issue for my younger brother, he is 22 5'7 125 lbs, a skinny looking kid. If he is out numbered or has a larger 6 foot 200lb plus guy surrounding or attempting to attack him but with no weapons does he have the right to lethal force. In the past I've heard (but not investigated to gather its validity) instances where a female with a male who has larger size but with no weapon has used lethal force and been justified. From my training it has always been if the assailant or assailants have no weapon we need to use less than lethal but we have oc, a baton, taser and even back up but a civilian in a situation like I've described does not have all those options. So would my little brother be some what justified in some sort of lethal force.