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US Ranks 21 of 23 in Math

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by evlbruce, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. evlbruce


    Nov 3, 2003
  2. IvanVic


    Apr 19, 2012
    I wonder how much we wasted on this bird?

  3. Yay no child left behind!

  4. 21 out of 23? Woo hoo, that's a 91%!!

  5. pugman


    May 16, 2003
    No surprise here.

    The U.S ranks #1 by a long shot in spending for health related issues yet ranks 37th or 38th in overall results (quality of care, average lifespan, infant mortality rates, etc)

    The fed and state/local governments along with the populace in general doesn't get the fact throwing money at a problem doesn't fix the problem.

    Case in point: my small town.

    We have a local public and a Lutheran private high school. Costs per student are lower at the Lutheran school but of course the key is parents need to pay for this out of pocket.

    If you can get by the prayer in school, students from the private school over the past twenty years have gotten 1) better ACT/SAT scores 2) more scholarships.

    One local resident even went so far as to try and get a study done (on his dime) to look at graduation classes in the past 5, 10, 15 years, etc. The purpose looking at income levels, jobs, etc. He met with a lot of resistance; rumor was the study never got off the ground because the tale of the tape (aka checkbook) clearly favored the private school.

    Does this mean all students of private schools do better? No. But when the largest public school system in Wisconsin (aka MPS Milwaukee public School) boasts a 43% high school graduation know the public sector isn't doing well.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  6. There are many factors which influence school success.

    Having kids that show up ready to learn is the biggest. You can't do that if they're worried about being shot on the way to school or haven't eaten since the free School Lunch the day before.

    Having parents which are committed to the value of education. This doesn't work if you think your "common sense" is just as valid as a masters degree and you pass that on to your kids. If you're too lazy as a parent to make your kid do their homework before sitting them in front of the TV/Babysitter. If the parents are working 2 minimum wage jobs to try and make ends meet and don't have time to be effective parents. etc.

    Having schools that are effectively funded. while we do spend a ton of money on education, our funding method of partially funding schools through property taxes leaves lots of schools in the lurch, while other schools in more affluent areas get the best of everything.

    Having administrators who aren't idiots. Pretty self explanatory.

    Having teachers which are paid enough to live on and who are committed to their jobs. I have a friend who owns a Restaurant. He pays his cooks more than my Sister gets paid as a teacher with a Masters deg. That's jacked up any way you look at it.

    Getting the federal government out of education standards. No child left behind and similar "one size fits all" programs are pure idiocy. Educators need the ability to tailor learning programs to each kid as they're able to. The current Federal system assumes every kid is college bound. This simply isn't realistic. We need to provide alternate pathways for kids who are good at trade skills and other things.

    Just a few thoughts...
  7. Guss


    Jul 1, 2010
    I took a look at #2 on the list, Finland, to see what they had going for them. The teachers are all unionized and must have at least a Masters degree even teaching at the primary level. Teacher pay is not particularly high, but teachers enjoy great respect. They start education early with most everyone from all social classes putting their children in daycare (free or very cheap). They have a good healthcare system, so you have mothers getting care even before they give birth, and kids have their health needs taken care of. They have a high adult to pupil ratio. They require foreign language study. They offer after-school programs like music. Lunches are free for all. The universities and books are free. They offer life-long learning programs, so the adults can be continuing learners. It sounds good to me.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  8. pugman


    May 16, 2003
    My wife is a teacher at a small private university.

    Full Disclosure: her pay sucks. Her benefits are basically nonexistent. Truth be told with the hours she works she would be better off working at McDonald's.

    She is however extremely dedicated to her job (think 60-70 hour work weeks). She was Rookie teacher of the year (she is only on her 2nd year) and her student's class scores were unheard of. Last term she scored two 5 of 5's (no teacher on any campus has gotten a perfect score in three years). A second class was a 4.86. Her lowest class score was a 4.26. She is one of the only people I know who truly loves their job.

    I agree: students-parents-teachers are the three way need for success. You can get away with one of the last two slacking if the student is on board.

    One size fits all programs are a failure. Even the idea "everyone has to go to college" is off base. My wife's school has some technical programs they can't seem to get off the ground. What counselors, students and parents don't understand is a mechanic or welder can make a very good living.
  9. TK-421


    Oct 12, 2012
    Pflugerville, TX
    I'm surprised the US doesn't rate 23 of 21 in math. xD
  10. Hey, al least we beat out Italy and Spain in both math and literacy.

    Which is kind of surprising to me because I only hable un poco Espanol and absolutely no Italian. But we still beat them in their own languages! :wow:
  11. sombunya

    sombunya I Like To Watch

    Jun 25, 2009
    The population of Finland is about half that of Los Angeles.

    I'm not an anthropologist, a statistician or expert in any kind of analysis related field, but I think that countries with smaller, more homogenic populations do better in some ways.

    Denmark is a tiny country yet they produce and sell huge cargo ships to huge countries. People love to point to Switzerland and their entire social structure.

    I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
  12. The countries of Northern Europe spend a great deal of money and resources on their social capital. We don't. When you invest in your people in intelligent ways you get results. When you just blindly waste money like we do because the mental children in your country are incapable of having even a marginally constructive dialogue about how to implement positive social investment then you fail.
  13. My stepdad was a teacher for 30-something years. He now runs a foundation which gets kids money for college. It's entirely privately funded and he meets with each kid in the Senior class at the school he taught at (well over 400 kids a year) and tries to find the best fit for that kid. Steers them toward that goal, and provides money for them to pursue it. Kids go into apprenticeship programs, linemans school, tech schools, a whole assortment of colleges, etc.

    You're right, lots of great jobs in a variety of industries but "No child left behind" is all about forcing kids into a 4-year school.
  14. Guss


    Jul 1, 2010
    So we just keep riding the "exceptional" bus.

    LASTRESORT20 LongTerm-Guy

    Aug 10, 2010

    "exceptional" (exceptionalism) The words are like Holy-Water to blood-sucking Vampire "Progressives" in power....Its not allowed anymore...cause its not "fair"
  16. Guss


    Jul 1, 2010
    The article only mentioned economically advanced countries. When you think about China gaining more PhD's per year than we are, it gets really sad.
  17. 21 of 23. That puts us in 3rd :)

    I joined the NRA, have you yet?
  18. Yeah, well in this case being the exception isn't a good thing.

    Exceptionally bad healthcare.

    Exceptionally bad education.

    Exceptionally poor personal freedom.

  19. cbthedookie


    Jun 27, 2013
    Predicted USAToday news mcnugget headline "Administration's Education Programs Result in US Reaching Top 25 in Math Competency and Top 15 in Literacy!"

    Everyone gets a trophy. We've become a country where "No child moves ahead." Ridiculous, pathetic and ultimately destructive.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
  20. engineer151515


    Nov 3, 2003
    Politicians like their voters stupid and dependent.

    Makes it look like they were democratically selected. You know, kind like President Putin.