close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Universal background check question

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by gwalchmai, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. BRoberts243

    BRoberts243

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    6
    that's what will happen... then they'll say "hey we need registration in order to enforce this"

    INCREMENTAL-ISM
     
  2. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    I happen to think background checks would help reduce criminals & mentally ill people access to guns.:dunno:

    Hard to not see that is would - unless you think no guns are ever purchased - in private sales - where one party is an upstanding citizen and the other is a criminal or crazy.

    Will they eliminate 100% of the problem - or 50% or 25%?

    NO - maybe 5% or 3%

    But in some ways that is beside the point. :shocked:

    If the anti gun members of congress want UBC - and I can get something worth much more if I agree to it - then it would be worth trying to work something out.

    Give in on the so called "gun show loop hole" but get something worth more in return.

    How much damage does the constant spin about the gun show loop hole and allowing criminals and crazy people to buy guns at gun shows with no check HURT the pro gun position?

    It gives the anti's something to say over and over and over that is so simple to understand and (in part at least) true - while making pro gun people who are against it look like nut jobs.

    Same thing as "carried interest" - where hedge fund managers can treat the fees they earn for managing money into capital gains and pay 20% tax rates - while Joe Blow hard working employee pays ordinary income tax rates + payroll taxes on his income.

    So it gives the liberals an issue they can harp on - year after year and build the case that the GOP only cares about millionaires and billionaires.

    Hang on to the losing positions based on ideology and lose the whole election - that will be a better situation.
     

  3. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    So you think the FOID cards which is what you are suggesting, have reduced crime in Illinois and kept the guns out of the hand of prohibited people? You are a Brady clone. You don't care about doing anything to reduce crime or prevent the wrong people from getting the firearms. You admit as much in with your 3%-5% statistic. Did you pull that number out of thin air or can you offer a cite for that? I think we both know the answer to that.

    ETA:"Get something worth more" in return? What is worth your rights being taken away and you helping them being taken away?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  4. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    If this is correct then why is this not being demanded now?

    If the person that has possession of a gun has a legal right to have a gun - leave them alone.

    If they are a criminal then prosecute them

    Same as now.
     
  5. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    It is already. They just don't have enough votes to get it done..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/n...re-expansive-ban-on-assault-weapons.html?_r=0

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/09/i...bans-confiscations-of-semi-automatic-weapons/

    http://www.examiner.com/article/sen...oal-of-gun-ban-is-to-dry-up-supply-of-weapons

    How you can't see that you are assisting them is beyond me...
     
  6. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    Not sure about the FOID card - never seen one - never had one. Once you get this card can you buy all the additional guns you want without any additional background check?

    Does it allow you to buy guns from out of state gun dealers and have the gun shipped directly to your home?


    I do know - I have had numerous background checks in the last 10 years - I am pretty sure I will have many more over the next 10 years because I like new guns.

    So from my perspective - the restriction imposed by background checks is already in full force.

    So from MY VIEW the added burden of showing my CHL to a guy I just met at a gun show - so I can buy the gun he has for sale is a really small price to pay.

    I did pull the 5% & 3% numbers out of my butt - I wasn't trying to mislead you - I said MAYBE 5% or 3%. These are small reductions. But still reductions. You are not saying the impact is 0 are you?

    Could be 1% or 1/2 of 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% I don't care - like I said - that is beside the point.

    The anti gun members of congress must think this is worth something - and it is worth something to me to shut them up about the "gun show loop hole" and of course as long as I get SOMETHING else worth more in return.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  7. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    By doing nothing proactive and just hiding out until some school gets shot up - then we all work to minimize the damage. Then go back in hiding until the next round of take aways.
     
  8. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    24,518
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Location:
    Outside the perimeter
    Not at all. "We" have been working to get shall issue CCW passed in many states, for instance. That may well be the reason we haven't seen a Newtown event in GA.
     
  9. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    I have to agree - on a state level we seem to do good.

    It is at the national level where things are more difficult.

    I was thinking more about federal legislation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  10. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    3
    I know of at least local 2 LEO's who will stand with the people if this stuff gets too crazy.




    They're not ALL dicks.
     
  11. dogmower

    dogmower

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    az
    i tend to agree with z71bill. laws can be changed, and can add to our freedoms - just look at the expanded concealed carry laws in some states. i think we need to be clear up front, however, on what is and what is not negotiable. UBC, ok. Registration, no, and put some teeth in it. i personally would love to see the 86 ban on new full autos go away. i would lose a ton of money, but i don't care.
     
  12. racerford

    racerford

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    492
    Location:
    DFW area
    If a felon is in possession they should be prosecuted. That is a federal law now. They do NOT prosecute it. They don't persue those that fail the background check now. HIPPA laws keep the medical records unavailable. Only if they are adjudicated is it in a court record.

    You don't get it, they have the ability to stop many things now and they don't. Why give them more? It will not work. And then they will say, see universal background check is not enough, we have to have registration. Then that will not stop it. Then they will say we have to confiscate the Modern Sporting Rifles. We will still have school shootings because they will still be gun free zones. Then they will call for confiscation of semi-auto pistol because they are the ones used in most murders. After all they aren't any good for hunting.

    They propose many things that wioll not work. Then of course they do not work. Then we must do more for the children!

    They are against things that really work. There are two things that keep murderers from recidivism; life in solitary , no parole, and the death penalty. And yet they are against those things. There are two things make recidivism among child rapist zero: life in prison, no parole, and the death penalty. And they are against those. They want to reform child rapists.

    When you suggest something that has proven to work, we will listen.

    Having armed good guys at schools has worked. They poo-pooed the NRA suggestion.
     
  13. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    Only to get something else that I want more.

    No gains in other things I want - no change to BGC.

    Why is this so hard to get?

    I am not saying GIVE AWAY anything.

    But taking a position that is ideologically pure and politically stupid ends up in the long run - being a loser position.

    This is true even if your position is the correct one. :shocked:

    You lose enough elections and the .22 single shot will be the only guns allowed.

    The assumption that BGC must also include registration is wrong.


    :wavey:
     
  14. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    The assumption that they will stop with Universal BGC is wrong.
     
  15. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    I know full well they will not stop fighting until every gun is melted.

    But what does this have to do with anything?

    Just because your opponent is not going to give up does not mean you should not try and gain something from them if the cost you pay is less than what you get.

    Think of it like a war. :dunno:

    We captured 100 enemy soldiers - they captured 105 of ours.

    Should we trade the 100 we have to get back 105 of our guys?

    According to your line of logic NO - unless they agree to unconditional surrender - no trade can be made.

    :wavey:
     
  16. dbcooper

    dbcooper

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,138
    Likes Received:
    2
    No, they will never give up gun free zones, stalemate.

    Comparing the debate to purchasing a product makes no sense, what you advocate is the same as me walking up and offering you more for the car then you are asking :faint:
     
  17. Mushinto

    Mushinto Master Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    7,556
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida, USA
    I do not believe in gun free zones, but if anything this is a states' issue.
     
  18. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    You and your bad analogies again...

    A proper one would be like when at war and you are under siege. With your line of thinking when the enemy comes under the white flag with the terms of the truce, They say we want all your land, all your women, and all your property. You counter with, just take half of our land. The other side gets something they want but don't deserve and never had to begin without offering up anything and YOU give up something that should be yours. This is the compromise you keep offering.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  19. whoflungdo

    whoflungdo

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,412
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    MS
    Close. and telling him to keep the tires because he took your money...
     
  20. Z71bill

    Z71bill

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    16,019
    Likes Received:
    3,154
    Location:
    Texas
    You have to start the process from where you actually are - not from some ideological dreamland of where you think you should be.

    Face the fact that some of our rights have been "infringed".


    You are saying there is nothing in the existing gun laws you want to get rid of and would be willing to trade for UBGC?

    One of the BIG mistakes many make is assuming the other side will not give on some things.

    How about if (in a state that schools are gun free zones) we propose extensive background checks & training for teachers that want to (their choice) CC while in school?


    Would you agree to these BGCs? Or

    Would you stand on principle and say no BGC should be required?


    I have been in many negotiations with people I hated - that does not mean I refused to negotiate.

    Few things feel better than negotiating a good deal with an enemy. By good deal I mean one where you get way more and give up way less.:supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013