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Universal background check question

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by gwalchmai, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Far as I know - the standard is as long as the seller did not know the person was - a felon, mentally ill, addicted to drugs, not a resident of the state - whatever else would make them prohibited - they are GTG.

    They have no duty to check anything - so if they do check and the ID is fake - I can't see where it would matter.
     
  2. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    That is not what I said -

    I do not know you - I have a gun for sale - I am at a gun show - I have a sign on my back that says G19 & 3 mags $400.

    You come up - hand me $400 - I hand you the gun.

    I broke no law - even if you are a convicted (just escaped from prison) felon with a mental problem that is addicted to crack.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013

  3. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

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    So how do you as Buyer A prove to the BATFE that the guy showed you the (fake) ID? And how do you tell them who has the gun unless you keep a record?
     
  4. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

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    True, which is why many sellers ask for a DL and CCW.

    I'm getting Jeeves from MIB saying "He looked OK to me..." here. ;)
     
  5. mgs

    mgs Always Carrying Millennium Member

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    Here's the BIG JOKE. My Daughter did this to become a Teacher and put the wrong Social Security number down and she passed with flying colors. She reversed two numbers by accident. What do they really check?....but take your money! They can't even match simple data.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  6. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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    Just like any other law that is broken- the gov must prove person a broke the law. Pretty simple really. If person a is really on point they will do a bill of sale for whatever firearm they sell. If person a wants to take it to the next level of cya they will keep a picture of the buyers permit. With all that said it is not person a's responsibility to prove their innocence. It is the govs job to prove their guilt. That is how our justice system works.

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  7. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Texas
    Why does it matter?

    You had no obligation to even check an ID -

    You committed no crime by looking at a fake ID -

    You have no obligation to keep any records -

    You have no obligation to tell the BATFE anything -

    :dunno:
     
  8. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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    Again the basics of our justice system. The burden of proof isnt on you. You dont have to maintain any records or prove anything. The gov must prove your guilt.

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  9. Z71bill

    Z71bill

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    Not so sure --

    I am not a lawyer -- but have been involved with the legal system (mostly civil) many times.

    You can actually get yourself in MORE trouble sometimes when you have good records - and are in many cases better off NOT having any records.

    :shocked:
     
  10. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

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    I'm referring to your proposed "no database" UBC system, not how things work today.
     
  11. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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    Thats fine but just because we say you must check id when selling a gun doesnt mean the basic fundamentals of our justice system will change from "innocent until proven guilty". Theres no reason to believe a change to require we check id would change the very basic fundamentals of our justice system. Orgs from the aclu to the nra would be lined up a mile long to sue the pants off the gov.

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  12. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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  13. The Fed

    The Fed

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    Name and address search. If she lived at the same address for 5 years that's all that's needed. They only care about SSN if there is more than one person with her name and they cannot positively identify her by her address.

    This is the same thing they do to you if you get a mortgage. Bet no one knew that.
     
  14. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I've been a cop, in a police family, working for law enforcement agencies, etc., since I was born - what you said is complete BS and I notice you don't support it with any details.:upeyes:
     
  15. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    All guns sold at retail since 1968 already have a paper trail, that's how ATF does gun traces every single day.
     
  16. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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    Dont bs me! I know all you jbts are just itching to break down my door, kick the hell out of my dog, follow my wife, and steal my guns! Lmao!

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  17. spcwes

    spcwes

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    I think Z71bill has come up with the best idea yet. We need to have a 4473 once every 1-2 years for everyone that wants to buy a gun and call it a UBC. Only one 4473 for a year or two worth of buying guns. So get a check, buy 100 guns over a year, then get another.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  18. gwalchmai

    gwalchmai Lucky Member

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    Let me make sure I understand. You'd do this to ensure that buyers at private sales undergo BCs. Is the ability to trace the gun not important (it's not to me)?

    Also, when the gun is traced to me and I sold it to a guy who showed he'd had a check, will the BATFE accept my word on that or do I need to keep a record?
     
  19. Mushinto

    Mushinto Master Member

    That is NOT how the "proposed universal background check" law will work. All private sales will have to go through an FFL. Individuals will not be allowed to conduct background checks.

    Since this type of nonsense is totally unenforceable, they will instantly declare another "loophole" and demand universal firearm registration. Without registration, you cannot prove there was a background check done.
     
  20. NickC50310

    NickC50310

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    Agreed. That is why we can not accept anything except what i have laid out.

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