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Ugh, Property Taxes

Discussion in 'Indiana Glockers' started by IPDBrad, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. The current property tax system is awful. The fact that the legislature allows it to continue shows that they don't care about the public, are ignorant, and have no idea of fairness.

    The solution is very simple. If you are going to tax property, TAX IT FAIRLY.

    Property tax doesn't need a subjective assessment on which a portion is taxed based on an assessors opinion.

    The market determines the value of all homes and the tax should be determined based on the market value any time a home is sold.

    If you purchase a home for $100,000, your tax is based on that amount for as long as you own the home. If you sell it for $200,000 then whoever purchases it, pays tax based on that amount. That way, you are not surprised by increasing taxes.

    If my home appreciates and my taxes go up, I make no money on that appreciation UNLESS I sell that home.

    The current system does nothing to support stable neighborhoods, improving one's property or making improvements to properties in transitional neighborhoods.

    If anything, the current system is punitive to homeownership.
  2. FThorn

    FThorn TV/Movie Club

    Apr 30, 2004
    Sounds like a platform to run for office!

  3. FThorn

    FThorn TV/Movie Club

    Apr 30, 2004
    Tax hikes so bad they need officers to guard assessors' offices?

    At least three of Marion County's nine township assessors will be given police protection because they are so worried about confrontations with irate taxpayers.

    The Marion County treasurer's office expects to begin mailing tax bills Friday, and Marion County Sheriff Frank Anderson said he will provide police protection for township assessors who fear the bills will be enough to spark rage among some taxpayers.

    "There are 12 people in this office, and I'm concerned for their safety and well-being," Lawrence Township Assessor Jeff Hill said. "The setting of tax rates is outside of our control, but we're the front line that people come to talk to when they don't like their property tax bills."
    Residential property values have increased an average of 23 percent in Lawrence Township since 2003, Hill said. Statewide, Hoosiers are expected to see an average 9 percent increase in residential property taxes.

    With some assessors fearing trouble, Anderson said he will have uniformed civil deputies with full arrest authority available to each assessor's office once the bills hit mailboxes.

    Anderson also said the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department has been asked to be alert for trouble at any assessor's office.
    "Public safety is paramount," Anderson said. "We will arrest them if they are disruptive."

    The concern of tax and police officials is an indication that tax bills could increase as dramatically as many did during the last statewide property reassessment, in 2003. At that time, owners of some well-maintained homes in older areas saw their taxes double or triple as the state shifted to market value assessments.

    Although property taxes are expected to increase an average of 9 percent statewide, residential property owners across Indiana will initially face an average increase of 24 percent until they get a rebate through the state later this year. The potential increase is the result of several factors, including the elimination of a state tax on business inventory and the statewide update of property assessments.

    Washington Township Assessor Joline Ohmart said she hasn't requested protection but has "put out some feelers" and heard talk about it.
    Ohmart took office in 2003, when bills went out after the last reassessment. There were a lot of angry people in the office looking for someone to blame, she said, but none became violent.

    "I don't think it's a huge concern," Ohmart said. "But in this day and age, you never know what is going to happen."
    Center Township Assessor Eugene Akers said he expects the public to be angry but has not asked for extra protection.
    But Becky Williams, third-term assessor in Franklin Township, said she is worried about security. She lobbied for a reserve deputy, and she knows where the panic button in her office is.

    "We're used to dealing with people who are upset, but every once in a while you get people who won't listen and it keeps escalating," Williams said.
    "A few of the other townships had bomb threats. I don't want to take any chances with my staff and customers in the office."

    Michael McCormack, the new Wayne Township assessor, said his office doesn't have a small-claims court with an armed constable or bailiff next door, as some other townships have, so he discussed police protection.
    He said he knew tax bills would increase dramatically because Wayne Township lost more than $300 million in assessed value from business inventory tax changes and business closings.

    "I knew my rates would go through the roof," McCormack said. "Now the treasurer's office is telling me they might be even worse than I expected. It scares me."
    Wayne Township resident Gary Ward said his bill jumped 42 percent. He appealed his assessment because the assessed value on his three-bedroom ranch home went up 14 percent, to $117,700. He doesn't think he can sell it for that amount.
    "When you assess people for $10,000 to $15,000 more than their home is worth, people will be on your doorstep," he said.

    Ward said he calculated his bill after he went on a city government Web site called CivicNet last week and found the city had accidentally posted tax rate information allowing bill calculations. He said it was taken down the same day, but not before he figured his tax increase.
    Ward said his bill jumped from $964 to $1,367 and would have gone higher if he didn't get special tax breaks for being a disabled veteran.

    "My neighbors, when they see their tax bills, they're going to fall off their chairs," Ward said.

    Star reporter Cordell Eddings contributed to this story.
    Call Star reporter Brendan O'Shaughnessy at (317) 444-2751.
  4. epsylum

    epsylum Boolit Hoze

    Sep 4, 2004
    Racing Capital, USA
    At least we have that sweet dome right?

  5. That Star story set me off on my rant, again. I have no problem paying taxes, but make them reasonable and fair. Heck, the middle class bites it again.

    I really wish the state and US govts. would adopt a sales tax system for taxing. That would bring in so many untaxed revenue sources (the illegals, and criminal incomes). Taxing something that is earning you no income, then raising it is idiotic.
  6. boilergonzo


    Mar 31, 2004
    How about we set up some arcane equation that takes the house at time of purchase, assesses a percent which scales up to hit homes with higher cost hardest, then depreciate it over several years to a flat annual fee, and then factor in some casino, gaming, or lottery reduction factor... oh, wait... we already do that with cars!

    (says the man who bought a new car in Illinois, paid the full tax hit, then transferred to Indiana and paid several years of additional tax hits... if they only could have added an extra tax on my wiper useage, a radio tax for songs I listened to, and an additional fee for the color of paint it had I would have been in absolute hog heaven!).

    Arbitrary systems are abused by the powerful. I can only wait and see what cruel afflications await me in the dreaded tax notice.
  7. geminicricket

    geminicricket NRA Life member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Lewisville, TX USA
    I live in a 2360 sq foot, 13 year old, 2-story, brick veneer house close to a highway, a Wal-Mart, and a church. My tax rate is and has always been around 2.2%. My property tax is about $4100/year now.
    In the next county over, my rich sister told me of some Arabian prince who owns a luxurious house a few hundred yards away from her domicile whose tax bill is a bit over $9000 per month. My sister's house was built about 23 years ago, and looks about like it did back then. Her tax bill on her house only reaches $9000 in a year. She payed $500,000 for it 3 years ago and recently an empty lot across the street from hers was sold for $450,000.

    All this information is to illustrate a point: You pay the piper if you want to dance.
  8. KSFreeman

    KSFreeman Broken Member

    Jul 10, 2001
    Lafayette, Indiana
    No change for me up here in Tippecanoe County. However, not looking forward to paying the piper when and if I move back to Marion County.:shocked:
  9. boilergonzo


    Mar 31, 2004
    The most expensive house in Indiana (Hilbert mansion) valued at $25M and listed for sale at $20M has an annual tax bill of $92,000 per year ($7,666 per month). Roughly .46% of the home value. My house is taxed at over 1.5% of the value (if I correct for the market downturn, it will be even worse!). How does that make sense?

    Assessments are made. The powerful, the aware, and the persistant can lobby the people in charge to try to make changes. The vast majority, however, accept the punishment and pay and grumble not realizing they have options or how to excercise their options. Why leave it to a person to make an assessment from the street (they can not come in, so all judgement of finished/unfinished basement is on data in records only...)?

    Even if home taxes were based upon value, one can see a relative selling a house to a relative for next to nothing to dodge taxes. It is simply a flawed way to asses revenue. At least a local income tax (which I would not want) is more evenhanded.

    The whole concept is flawed.
  10. toots shor

    toots shor Amagi

    Jan 27, 2006
    Indianapolis needs new leadership, badly.
  11. Rikki

    Rikki Pathetic Loser

    Apr 10, 2002
    Behind the curtain
    I'd like to see them bump the sales tax to whatever it takes to get rid of property tax.
    Then put a penny on gas and get rid of the BMV fees.
  12. R. Emmelman

    R. Emmelman Tired Member


    Not to flame you but you are fixing the wrong problem. Local government needs to reduce spending not raise (or shift) tax. It is so easy to build that $8-million high school football stadium and stick it to the taxpayer. My personal rant is that I pay all this property tax and get very little in return. I don't use the public school system (in fact I spent several thousand of dollars to send my daughter to a private school and now home school). I have never used the county welfare system. And my street has not seen a maintenance rew in the 20 years I have lived here. Yet every six mounths I write a check to Marion county/Indianapolis to support those who do. Let's not raise taxes but force the city/county to spend what they have wisely.

    *** rant off ***
  13. I would love to see a national sales tax, with requiste elimination of the income tax. This would tax those who consume more, tax those who don't claim income (illegals and those involved in illegal activities) and simplify April for many people.
  14. R. Emmelman

    R. Emmelman Tired Member

    That would be OK on a national level, but there still needs to be something done on a local one. When a municipality can build a multi-million dollar library, be two years over due, cost much more then planned, and then just say let's raise taxes, that's wrong! That seems to be the answer for everything, RAISE TAXES!

    *** rant *** *** rant *** *** rant *** *** rant *** *** rant *** *** rant ***

    :) if we could just get a pay raise for IPDBrad.... :)
  15. Gump


    Jun 5, 2004
    Southern Indiana
    That's what I want to see too. It would be nice if those 12 illegal's living in the same apartment helped out the system too. I read one time that there is an estimated 300,000 illegals in Indiana. It would be nice if at least when they buy stuff, they were putting some of their money into the "kitty".
    Hell, it cost me $.26 per hour to live in this house I built for half of what those jackasses apriased it for.
  16. Rikki

    Rikki Pathetic Loser

    Apr 10, 2002
    Behind the curtain
    Shifting the property tax burden to a state sales tax would make it fair for everybody, plus, out of state buyers would be helping with the load.(That was why the put casinos OOPS, err, RIVERBOATS on the state's "edges"- to get other state's folks money)
    Just put a state sales tax in and you can fire all the assesors and that whole wad of loafers down at the courthouse.
  17. mpholic


    Nov 1, 2004
    As far as a income tax replacing property tax I'm all for it but I don't see it happening. Too many people who don't own property (read transient apartment dwellers who skip out on their rent), so called "poor" people on welfare, etc. all have the same voting power as you and I. If the sales tax goes up they will complain they can't afford to buy anything. The politicians (who cater to these groups) will then create a tax credit for the "poor" and since most don't report their income they get "under the table" or the income they derive from the sale of illegal drugs they will qualify for the credit.

    We will be back to square one with little ground gained for the middle class. Sure you might get a little extra tax income from the middle class guy who just chooses to rent instead of own but I don't think there are a lot of people in that demographic.
  18. I am not opposed to property taxes, just the way they are "assessed". The entire assessment system is a joke, and quite open to abuse. The market already assesses property and places the fairest value of all on that property.

    I also think that the tax should remain static, changing only when the property changes hands.

    Rich, you are so right about controlling costs. Government always has issues with this, after all, they do nothing to "earn" that money. And as we all know, you value things more when you earn them.

    I am dumbfounded when the Mayor and other government officials say we need to raise taxes, yet, they continue to give abatements and build non-essential items. I guess we will have a lovely cultural trail though.
  19. boilergonzo


    Mar 31, 2004
    I am not for a regressive tax scheme. But I do think a flat fair sales tax can be made in lieu of flawed property schemes. Minnesota does not tax food OR clothes. Okay! So in Indiana I propose that any clothes purchase under $500 is tax free (the poor will not bear the brunt of taxation, nor will folks with lots of kids in school get whacked). Anything over that amount (furs, fine suits, wedding dresses, etc.) are luxury items, and are to be taxed at the going rate.

    No food tax. The poor and rich can eat all they want without tax. This would exclude alcohol, which will be taxed. If we wanted, we could even tax soft drinks, chips, and cookies, while leaving apples, celery, and chicken tax-free (I will admit, this has a Big Brother factor to guard against!).

    Fuel taxes go up. Allow a waiver for low-income folks, and zap the rest of us. That will provide incentive for fuel efficient cars, and also put the brunt of road repairs on the people who use them the most. It also will tax out-of-state drivers to help gain revenue.

    In short, taxing at the point of purchase simplifies tracking and assessment. It is more fair, because it is harder to dodge. It also ties revenue more closely to the economy, forcing frugal spending in tight times. Currently, policy makers are somewhat immune to economic turns (your property taxes never go down...). While easier to budget around, it is also too easy to get lazy and stop viewing expenditures with a laser-beam focus.
  20. R. Emmelman

    R. Emmelman Tired Member


    So where do you put the line of "low income"? While I think I make pretty good money I am sure Mr. KSFreeman might not think so. That thinking is what got us into the mess we are in now. "Low" income and "high" income all depends on where you are looking from. A flat income or sales tax is the only fair way to do it.

    However I still stand by my previous posting, that government should not get one more cent (really should be less) and cut their spending!