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!*&^# Ubuntu!

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Jim1970, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Bushflyr

    Bushflyr ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ Millennium Member

    3,524
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    Mar 17, 1999
    Western WA
    I defer to your greater experience, but, out of curiosity, what's wrong with wubi? Given that he does have a working Windows OS on the machine.
     
  2. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,925
    1,154
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    wubi integrates the two operating systems way to tightly (since Ubuntu basically ends up installed on a virtual drive that you can boot). When wubi works, everything is fine. When wubi doesn't work, it is a mess to fix, and honestly, rarely successful. Really the biggest problem, is when Windows has a problem(virus, or any other typical windows problem), it typically renders both OS's unable to boot, and in addition to all this, it makes windows more difficult to fix because of the way wubi writes to the boot loader. You talk to anyone who's ever been involved in support, etc.. for Ubuntu, and they'll tell you wubi was the worst idea Canonical ever came up with.

    I think part of the issue also, was Canonical started wubi, as a way to try Ubuntu. It was easy to install, and should be easy to uninstall. The problem is, people started using wubi as a replacement for a normal dual boot system, and Canonical tried to adjust it to make it a more "permanent" solution, and then the problems started. Also, it's not uncommon when you uninstall wubi, for the boot sector to end up corrupt and the machine will then fail to boot Windows. Again, it doesn't happen all the time, but it definitely happens with enough frequency, I'd never ever recommend wubi.

    On a normal dual boot machine, typically at least one of the operating systems will always bootable. The only way you'd really have an unbootable system, is in the event of a grub failure, and that can be fixed in about 5 seconds from a live cd/usb with the boot repair utility.

    I've watched (and participated) in the support channel where guys have worked for HOURS trying to fix a bricked wubi install, only to finally say "Sorry, you're going to have to reinstall windows.. hopefully you have the cd" (because there's a good chance in this scenario, you won't be able to boot a recovery partition as well)

    Sorry, that was way way longer than I'd intended, but.. Really, wubi is NOT the way to go when trying to install Ubuntu.

    IGF
     


  3. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,925
    1,154
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    The CD is a live CD, so the OS runs from the CD for you to try it. If you don't like it, just reboot and remove the CD, and you're back in Windows like nothing ever happened.

    I would be REALLY surprised if that machine does not have the ability to boot a USB device. That has been a feature on laptops for at least the last 10yrs (my old Acer laptop would be about 11yrs old and could boot USB's no problem)

    Is "USB" not an available option in your boot sequence, or is there some other problem?
     
  4. Bushflyr

    Bushflyr ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ Millennium Member

    3,524
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    Mar 17, 1999
    Western WA
    No, i appreciate all the detail. I've done my server install aaton of times, but am still learning.
     
  5. Jim1970

    Jim1970 Learnin'

    505
    7
    Jan 2, 2005
    Wyoming
    IGF,

    Thank you for taking the time to help me with the ongoing battle!

    I was surprised that "usb" wasn't listed as an option in my boot order. I don't have the machine in front of me now, but the order was something like, "built-in (name of hard drive), CD, LAN, FDD." I tried the FDD and LAN (re-booting each time, with the thumb drive in place) to no avail.

    A bit of google research resulted in learning that some Toshiba machines do not allow booting from a thumb drive. Lucky me!

    If I want to try it from a CD, I would just need to download the .iso and burn it, correct? My gut says I have the .iso from yesterday (the one I clicked) - is my hunch correct?

    Thanks again!

    Jim
     
  6. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,925
    1,154
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    Weird, I'm surprised your machine can't boot a USB, but obviously if USB wasn't an option, it wasn't an option (My Toshiba boots USB just fine)

    As for booting the CD, yes, that's correct. You still have the old ISO, so you don't need to download it again, just burn the ISO to a CD, make sure you burn it as an image! (I'm not familiar with the "click an ISO" option under 7, but I imagine that should work.. just make sure it burns as an image, not as a file).

    If for some reason that doesn't work, I've used ISO Recorder on Windows machines many, many times. It's free, and works pretty simply.

    http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm

    (Note, that link lists several apps you can use to burn an ISO and instructions on how to use them... I only have experience w/ ISO recorder)

    IGF
     
  7. Jim1970

    Jim1970 Learnin'

    505
    7
    Jan 2, 2005
    Wyoming
    Need to get some CD's to do this with, then I'll be off and running!

    Thanks again for your help,

    Jim
     
  8. IGF already touched on it. But make sure to burn it as a disk image and not as regular data.
     
  9. corpseal

    corpseal

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    Sep 18, 2005
    Jim:
    Check your bios again. THere should be another line item that allows you to select the "hard drive" boot order - this will list ONLY your hard drives (NOT any cd or dvd drives or zip or floppy drives), and WILL include your usb thumbdrive which your bios considers to be a hard drive. Just select your thumbdrive and you will be ready to go.
     
  10. GIockGuy24

    GIockGuy24 Bring M&M's

    4,037
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    Jul 14, 2005
    With Amber Lamps
    After you boot the CD you can install the system on a USB drive. You can place the bootloader on a floppy, or even another CD if you can hook up a USB CD writer at the same time while installing on USB drive. The installation CD might even be useable to boot the USB drive. f you put the bootloader on the internal hard drive, it will overwrite the Windows bootloader but it will then be useable to boot both Windows and the external USB drive. Lots of options.
     
  11. Jim1970

    Jim1970 Learnin'

    505
    7
    Jan 2, 2005
    Wyoming
    Hello,

    I wanted to give you folks an update on my Ubuntu experience.

    I am running it from a CD now on my older Toshiba Satellite. It is very intuitive and simple to get around in. So far, everything that has needed "done" has been automatic. For example, it came up and told me about the network it could see, and it had me enter the required information. While that isn't an earth-shattering claim to fame, it is an example of how easy it is to use.

    I've read that I may need to enter certain commands to make sure program are downloaded and kept current. Is there anything special you would recommend that I do?

    Running from the CD is slow, but I will get my old data off of this machine, then do the install. Very exciting stuff!

    Thanks again for all the help!

    Jim
     
  12. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,925
    1,154
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    As far as keeping things up to date... as long as you install all your software(programs, etc..) from the repositories (which you'll want to do while you're learning) the system updates will keep track of when your software needs updated. When you run your system updates (which you can find on the dashboard) it will update your software.

    Really if you're using Ubuntu (which is designed almost ground up for Linux newbies), you can get away w/ very very rarely using the command line. Sometimes it's faster to use the command line, but Ubuntu almost always has GUI tools to do what you want.

    I love Ubuntu on my laptops, because it's hardware recognition(wireless devices, graphics controllers, etc..) is second to none.

    On my desktops though, I really prefer either a vanilla Debian install, or even Fedora.
     
  13. Bushflyr

    Bushflyr ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ Millennium Member

    3,524
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    Mar 17, 1999
    Western WA
    IGF, what's your rec for a home server? It needs to serve music via Subsonic, movies (just storing them now, need to figure out streaming), handle backups via Time Machine, and rune zoneminder for the security cams.

    I've been running Ubuntu for the last year and have had continuous troubles with the RAID and MDADM.

    I have a spare system drive that I was thinking of trying out a straight Debian install on after the RAID crashing yet again. Seems to happen any time I drop a HUGE file on it. :steamed:
     
  14. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,925
    1,154
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    Ubuntu is probably the easiest server to run.

    I run OpenMediaVault on my server (It's based on Debian). Although it's basically designed to be a NAS, you can run any software you want on it. I like it, everything works well but I also have a lot of problems with software raid. I don't know if it's my motherboard, or what. I never had this problem with Ubuntu, but it drives me nuts and my RAID's are constantly breaking. I finally got tired of it, and just set up an few rsync jobs to run every few hours. Keeps everything backed up with little input from me.

    I'd use Ubuntu server, but I try to support the OMV project (even though I think he was a fool for not basing it on Ubuntu server)...

    Try it in Virtualbox (like I said, it's designed to be a NAS, but underneath, it's just Debian server, so you can do anything you want with it). I believe there's several of us here that use OMV.

    http://www.openmediavault.org
    http://forums.openmediavault.org/
     
  15. Bushflyr

    Bushflyr ʇno uıƃuɐɥ ʇsnɾ Millennium Member

    3,524
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    Mar 17, 1999
    Western WA
    That's right. I remember you recommended that before. It was running fine at the time, so I forgot.

    I may just do away with the RAID and use the drives separately, Movies and ZM on one, Music and TM on the other, and back them up to the 3rd and 4th drives. It is really nice to have them all appear as one big storage space though. :crying:
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012