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Trayvon Martin's Life One of Hundreds Ended by Concealed Carry Killers

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by count_schemula, Mar 23, 2012.


  1. count_schemula

    count_schemula
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/trayvon-martin_b_1373642.html

    Unfortunately, look for more of this tone in the near future.

    Don't get me wrong, from what evidence I have been been exposed to, it is my opinion that it looks highly possible/probable that Zimmerman acted wrong on many levels even before what is looking like an unjustified killing/use of force and Zimmerman should be brought to justice.

    I'm upset because this reflects poorly on all of us.

    We need to double down on our proper behavior and the AWESOME responsibility that comes with carrying in public.

    Last week I was proud to be licensed carry. I'm still proud and I know why I carry, but it's more difficult this week.

    Public perception of carry just took a massive hit.

    ************************************
    Moderator Note: Later in this thread this exchange is posted...
    count_schemula wants to discuss the aftermath coming against the 2nd Amendment.

    Please, keep your discussions within those boundaries.

    Talk about what is happening within your community, your city or county, your state.

    Discuss the effects this is having, will have on those of us who carry.

    Any off-topic, rude, trolling posts will be removed from the open forum.

    This isn't about count_schemula's interpretation of and compliance with Georgia Law, either.

    Thank you...

    RussP
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
    #1 count_schemula, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2012
  2. Mr. Blandings

    Mr. Blandings
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    Florida Governor Rick Scott has announced he will form a "Task Force on Citizen Safety and Protection to investigate how to make sure a tragedy such as this does not occur in the future, while at the same time, protecting the fundamental rights of all of our citizens - especially the right to feel protected and safe in our state."

    EVERYTHING (Stand Your Ground, CCW, CCW training/issuance requirements, etc.) will be on the table for review now, and you can be sure that every person/group with an interest is going to try to get their piece of the pie.

    30+ years of RTKBA success in Florida are all at risk now.
     

  3. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo
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    Why start another thread when there are several ongoing right now on this topic? :wavey:
     
  4. count_schemula

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    I see the one about the incident in general.

    This one is specifically about the coming assault on carry laws and also about public perception of carry in general.

    Before this incident, I had noticed that some people understood why I carry. Some thought I was a little bit paranoid. Now add wannabe vigilante to mix.

    Before I was not all that worried if people noticed that I was carrying, now I know people are going to look at me differently.

    I live in downtown Atlanta and did not take my gun with me to run a few errands tonight. No idea why, just didn't, even though I normally would. I drove through an area at about the same exact time a cop was shot in the leg tonight, in an area I frequent.

    http://eastatlanta.patch.com/articles/altlanta-police-seek-little-five-pts-cop-shooter

    My point with this thread is that very suddenly, things just got a lot more complicated for those of us who carry for personal protection, as intended.

    Before this incident, I would walk to a bar or restaurant and ask the owner if it was ok if had a gun and a carry license. Not a single owner ever said no, and everyone knew why i had a gun for walking through the Old Fourth Ward at midnight. Now things suddenly seem a lot more complicated.

    I'm not that interested in talking about the actual incident, as I am the repercussive effects of the incident. This is a defining incident that is going to have some impact.

    If someone somewhere wants to delete or merge, that's fine, but I think it's a different thread. Hell, I could have asked G17 or G22, which is better? lol
     
    #4 count_schemula, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  5. Mr. Blandings

    Mr. Blandings
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    The local prosecutor has stepped aside, also. Florida Governor Rick Scott has appointed a prosecutor to handle the investigation.

    Also, Gov. Scott has announced, "I will call for a Task Force on Citizen Safety and Protection to investigate how to make sure a tragedy such as this does not occur in the future, while at the same time, protecting the fundamental rights of all of our citizens - especially the right to feel protected and safe in our state."

    Source: Governor appoints new state attorney, task force in Trayvon Martin case
     
  6. Mr. Blandings

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    I agree that this is a different discussion from the threads concerning the shooting itself.
    There is the shooting, and now there is the aftermath, particularly the political aftermath of the shooting.

    The move by Gov. Scott to launch a task force concerns me greatly. To me, it indicates that a sitting Republican governor is willing to consider significant changes to the current laws.

    Florida's laws on CCW and use of force have been cited as the model used to expand these horizons in other states for over 30 years (the Florida law on CCW was changed in 1987, and ushered in a new age of "shall-issue" carry permit laws across the nation). What happens here will be closely watched by the rest of the country.

    I am deeply concerned that this will have a negative impact on the successful progression we have seen in just the past few years concerning CCW, shall-issue, "Vermont carry", opening previously closed locations to CCW (such as college campuses), and obviously Stand Your Ground laws.
     
    #6 Mr. Blandings, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  7. Rick68FL

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    :upeyes:
     
  8. count_schemula

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    Sound weird?

    Well, I walk to these places to eat and the law as written in Georgia says a restaurant is ok, but a bar requires owner permission. A lot of places that qualify as decent places to eat just happen to be bars or gastropubs here.

    The walk can be up to a mile or two through neighborhoods in transition where street jacks are common.

    So, did you have a specific reason for rolling your eyes?

    What is with this place? First dude calls me for making a unique thread since he rashly deemed it a duplicate and now you are calling me out for following the law as I understand it.
     
  9. Rick68FL

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    Yup. I think anyone who walks into a restaurant, seeks out the owner/manager and announces that he is armed and asks if that is ok is an attention-seeking tool.

    Any more questions?
     
  10. kirgi08

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  11. ancient_serpent

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    Just went on the HuffPo link and corrected as much of the ignorance there as I could. Holy crap there are some retards out there. Wouldn't be so bad if they were actually making an educated argument, but most of it is "Oh that's terrible, please tell us how to ban more guns VPC!!"
     
  12. count_schemula

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    I just told you it's the law in Georgia.
     
  13. count_schemula

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    Nah...
     
  14. High Altitude

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    It is open season on guns, ccw and gun owners................

    You could write any article about guns and ccw and use the most hate filled words and no one would bat an eye right now.

    The special interest groups, politicians and media are going for the gold.
     
  15. c6601a

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    The law, as you state it says that carrying in a bar requires permission. But earlier you stated that you inform the owner at a bar and restaurant. In the same post, you stated "I was not all that worried if people noticed that I was carrying". Concealed means exactly that: Concealed or hidden. No one should be able to notice that you are carrying. If someone is able to notice that you are carrying, you just failed.

    The fact that you are advertising that you carry makes you come across as an immature attention seeker or cop wannabe. Both of those are highly frowned upon.
     
  16. count_schemula

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    The restaurant thing was confusing writing on my part. I never tell the manager in a place that is a straight restaurant. But I live downtown we have a lot of bars with food or food places that sell a lot of alcohol, I'm not sure which is which. This is not Oregon, we don't use the bar/tavern designation. I only inform bar owners/managers and just because it is the law as I understand it and I walk or ride my bicycle to and from the bar. Even if I drive I'm likely to wear it in since car windows get smashed all the time around here.

    Pulling the owner/manager aside and getting quick permission is not advertising anything to anyone other than the person responsible for running the place I'm in. They have the option to say no, in which case, I would simply leave. No one has ever said no. I was only using this story to show how carry, before Trayvon was socially acceptable and even understood. That's it. It's not the focal point of this thread. Merely an example of public acceptance which is crucial if we are going to be allowed to carry post Trayvon.

    This is all from 2009 SB308 modifying O.C.G.A. 16-11-127 (b) 6.

    Things are lax in Georgia. No training required, just a background check and at the courthouse, no information or handouts or anything. In fact, the clerk just said "look it up on the Internet."

    The main website I use is http://www.georgiacarry.org/

    My desire to impress or show off or seem vigilante is zero. My desire to present a good cooperative image and be in compliance with any laws is 100%.

    On your other point. If I look around I can see people carrying sometimes. A bulge, a holster under a jacket, whatever. Maybe I just notice things other people don't or aren't looking for. Part of carrying a gun is being pretty freaking aware of your surroundings, which, alone has been my best weapon for evading trouble. Before Trayvon, I don't think that if someone noticed I was carrying that it was a big deal. Now, maybe it is.

    Besides, I could carry openly, so this secret agent business about 100% conceal is a non-issue. The law does not say I have to conceal anyhow. But, yes, I do, and it's probably much better that way.

    So, in a thread about carry being under public perception and legislative assault the best the high school drop out sales guy who's pic is of him about to blast his bathroom mirror off the wall can do is to call me a tool and you chime in with immature attention seeking cop wannabe. Awesome.
     
    #16 count_schemula, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  17. count_schemula

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    Well, maybe just a little bit. ;)
     
  18. kirgi08

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    Hold on.When folk start ta wake up this thread will get lively.'08.
     
  19. RussP

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  20. Misty02

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    Good law abiding people die every day when they shouldn’t have to. They are guilty of nothing more than being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Many die at the hand of criminals, others die in accidents (vehicular and others). No government can make its citizens feel protected and safe, it is not something they can deliver.

    At this moment you can take away stand your ground laws and all firearms in the state and those protesting may feel safe for a minute or two. In reality, they wouldn’t be any safer, there would just be a greater segment of the population vulnerable and at risk.

    Any feeling of being protected or safe that we, ourselves, didn’t have a hand in personally creating for our family, is a dream that doesn’t exist. A dream from which there would be quite a rude awakening. Even those that do the most to increase their and their family’s safety shouldn’t take it for granted and must remain ever vigilant and prepared. That’s the only way to attain a small fraction of that feeling they now wish to make others believe the government can deliver.

    .