close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Topping off question...

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Droid noob, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Droid noob

    Droid noob

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm curious if there's anything inherently wrong with placing a cartridge in the chamber and letting the slide close riding it into battery. It would be easier than racking one out of the magazine and topping that off. OK, maybe not easier. A little faster maybe.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
     
  2. emtjr928

    emtjr928

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    McDonough, Ga.
    Yes there is something wrong. When a round is fed into the chamber from a magazine the case rim slides under the extractor hook. If you place a round in the chamber and close the slide it not only puts undue stress on the extractor since it has to be forced over the case rim, the firearm may not fully go into battery. In either case, a round should only be chambered from a magazine.
     

  3. Droid noob

    Droid noob

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good to know. Thanks.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. oldsoldier

    oldsoldier

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    MO
    I have a "barney" mag for the four pistols I might carry. It has one round in it and that's what I load the chamber with. It's usually a beat up mag but not always. That saves wear on the extractor and on the carry mags and ammo. It also helps me to keep track of the number of times a round has been chambered. When it's time to replace it all I have to do is replace the one in the barney mag. This is just one way of doing things and I'm sure other folks have their way of doing it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  5. robhic

    robhic WOLVERINE!!!! Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,713
    Likes Received:
    3,284
    Location:
    Louisiana
    I use a "Sharpie" marker to mark the back of the bullet. Every time I eject for whatever reason, I use a cheap micrometer ($3 from Harbor Freight Tools) to gauge my marked round vs. a new one. Slightest indication of difference (set back) I shoot that round next trip out, mark another and repeat the rotation.
     
  6. crazi_e

    crazi_e

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    nj
    others may understand the reason more than I do, what does that do for you?
     
  7. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,054
    Likes Received:
    288
    Repeated chambering of a round may cause the bullet to set back into the case. This will increase pressure when the round is fired. The last thing you want is a +P+ turning into a +P++++.

    So, some folks have procedures in place to determine which rounds have been chambered and they then take them out of the rotation and shoot them as practice rounds.

    There is also the possibility that a bullet will move forward in the case. If so, it may impact the rifling before firing and this will also increase the pressure. It may also make it impossible to use this round in a magazine. This forward movement is more of a problem in rifle rounds.

    Richard
     
  8. English

    English

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,585
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    London
    It means he is using only one cartridge for multiple chamberings until he detects the beginning of bullet setback. Then he fires it.

    The problem with that system is that the force that produces setback happens when chambering the cartridge from the magazine and once it has started to move it moves more easily. So the bullet you load again with slight setback might then setback to a dangerous level. This woud be especially true of the 357SIG. It is probably better to discard that round when setback can be measured.

    An alternative is to load a single round with the magazine out. With the pistol on its slide I believe it is possible the work a round into extractor so that it feeds in a "natural" manner. I will try to remember to experiment with this sometime. I am more inclined to load the round from the magazine by slowly letting the slide forward and then pushing it if it has not gone fully into battery.

    There have been many impassioned threads on this issue and it seeems that it is, or has been, a serious issue with 1911s. Some Glocks have also broken their extractors, though far more have never had a problem and I know of one that has been loaded this way for thousands of rounds without damage. When one breaks in a glock the conclusion that is jumped to immediately by people who have been trained in 1911s or trained by people trained in 1911s is that the extractor cannot stand the impact with the brass of the cartridge and breaks. Brass is a lot softer than heat treated steel and for the older type of extractors I doubt this explanation - for MIM ones I am less convinced.

    I suspect, without any evidence at all, that the ones that break are occasionally impacting the slot in the barrel and that is the source of the damage. Or maybe they have just been improperly heat treated. With the present problems with extraction it is no longer as simple as saying keep a spare and replace if it breaks, but you could keep a tested spare and replace if it breaks.

    English
     
  9. SJ 40

    SJ 40

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    14,868
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Location:
    Vermont
    As English describes it in his post,loading a round and then inserting the empty magazine to aid in supporting said round works very well with some practice.

    IIRC the first reference I saw as to this method was from Arch Angel,I read his post over a couple of times and then tried it,it's now my preferred method for loading carry ammunition in my gun.Maybe if he sees this thread he will repost it,if I had a decent video camera I or someone would do a You Tube clip,easier to demonstrate than to describe.
    SJ 40
     
  10. bub

    bub Millennium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 1999
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    71
    Dropping a round into the chamber then letting the slide run home can and does cause damage to the extractor, as I know from personal experience.

    Many years ago, when I started carrying my then-new, 2nd Gen G21 as my duty gun for my PD job, we had an instructor that KNEW that he knew everything. He didn't THINK he knew everything, he KNEW that he knew everything. When simulating a failure drill one fine day, he was ordering everyone to lock their slides open, dropping an empty case into the chamber then running the slide home. I protested and was told, bluntly, to shut my ****ing mouth, unless I wanted to fail, which would lead to failure to qualify, which would lead to not being able to carry, which would lead to not working. I shut up and let him do it, cleaned the course and finished qualifications.

    When I got home and cleaned my G21, I found the bottom 2/3 had been chipped off the extractor. The gun still ran like a top, even with only about 1/3 of an extractor, but it was clearly broken. Got a new extractor through Glock (I was, and am, an armorer), which the PD paid for when I complained about the instructor, installed it and was good to go.

    The next year, he did the same thing, I did the same thing, I shot the course then immediately checked my extractor. Chipped again, about 2/3 missing again. I pointed out the damage to the Chief, the instructor got reamed, I got another new extractor (2, actually; I got a spare, which is still in my parts bin, never used) and all was well. The instructor never did that again.

    As was posted above, the rim of round being chambered is meant to ride up under the extractor claw, not have the extractor claw snap over the rim, as would happen if you just drop a round into the chamber and let the slide run home. I'm well aware that lots of people do it that way anyway, and never have any damage. I'm also well aware that there are a significant number of extractors damaged by this practice, if the gun wasn't designed to be loaded that way, and have personal experience with 2 broken extractors from doing it that way. How you run your gun is your business, but it can and does cause damage if the gun wasn't designed to work that way, which Glocks are not.

    Bub
     
  11. barth

    barth six barrels

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,863
    Likes Received:
    907
    Location:
    The Free Zone
    I've always heard that was hard on the gun and to be avoided.
    I don't do it.
     
  12. kashdaddy

    kashdaddy Glockaholic

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Umm, Earth!
    This topic has been discussed many times and IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS TECHNIQUE. Even the firearm manuals will tell you not to do this. No shortcut and only one correct way. Safety is priority numero uno.