close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

To The Libertarians

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by concretefuzzynuts, Oct 25, 2012.


  1. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts
    Expand Collapse
    Brew Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    7,475
    13
    Location:
    PNW
    This is an open letter to the Libertarians here on GT. I know I will draw fire and I know the other parties will respond unkindly, however I hope I reach the heart and minds of my fellow Libertarians. I am not posting this to debate, I am more interested in planting a seed of thought.


    I would never call myself a republican, there was a time I might, but not now. A conservative? Closer but too constrictive.

    For close to 30 years I have classified myself proudly as a Constitutional Libertarian. Now, after this new generation of people who call themselves Libertarians, who care less about the country but more about their principals and morals, I am thinking maybe they have tainted the term Libertarian to the point I don't want to be associated with them.

    You see, back in the late 70's and early 80's, we Libertarians knew we were a small party and needed to make an impact in the party closest to our beliefs. That's why Ron Paul is in the Republican party. He tried to change from within, knowing an outside third party stood no chance, YET. Now these younger Libertarians think it's all or nothing, and have the attitude that they don't care if Obama gets voted back in, their pride and morals are clear because they voted for Gary Johnson (another Republican until a few months ago).

    The process took over 200 years to get this f'ed up. It a'int gonna change in a few elections. I've been part of a movement for almost 30 years that is starting to finally take hold. The country is learning and the proof is all you new Libertarians. But to expect change by a dissenting vote to stand your ground is foolish. To allow things to go farther left to prove a point is pointless.

    The point is, You don't jump out of a hole that's been dug, you climb. Letting Obama have another 4 years because you held your principals doesn't help our country. If Mitt is elected and things don't change to the positive, at least it wasn't a change to more extreme socialism. It will take steps, not leaps.
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston
    edited
     

    #2 certifiedfunds, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  3. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts
    Expand Collapse
    Brew Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    7,475
    13
    Location:
    PNW
    There's no bye involved. I am in. The younger Libertarians just need to wake up.

    Did you even read what I wrote? Try reading it again.
     
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston
    edited
     
    #4 certifiedfunds, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  5. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts
    Expand Collapse
    Brew Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    7,475
    13
    Location:
    PNW
    I have always respected you opinions and posts. I will still do the same.
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston
    Bah. Apologies. I'm grumpy.
     
  7. countrygun

    countrygun
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    17,069
    17
    Having been wrestling with it since I first voted "out of the box" decades ago, I understand what you are saying and I feel the same way. I hear a lot of talk. When you pin them down they know it won't change anything and then they start talking, selfishly, about their "conscience", as is assuaging that was more important than letting that wreck back in the White House. It is amazing that they talk as if they were at Valley Forge and fighting a nobel fight, but the fact is, we remember Valley Forge for the sacrifice those men made, not for how good they felt about themselves. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a bit of your warm fuzzy highground for the good of the Country in the political arena.

    I am not seeing the mindset of decades ago when the motive was the good of the Country as a whole, I am seeing the "me" generation slipping in and talking about their self image and "How their decision makes them feel about themselves?. Yah, that's the spirit that built america and won wars alright, don't jump in that foxhole to fight a common threat until you are sure of the political affiliation of the guy already there.

    It isn't a step in the right direction and it is leaving the rational folks with only the choice of reforming the Republican party. either way, the Libertarian movement has done nothing to better this election for America. They have already claimed the position of biggest loser, and it has nothing to do with number of votes.
     
    #7 countrygun, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  8. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    12,129
    9
    concretefuzzynuts
    Well atleast one Liberterian got the message! It's about the Country as a whole not the party. :supergrin:
     
  9. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts
    Expand Collapse
    Brew Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    7,475
    13
    Location:
    PNW
    My point is not to discredit the new Libertarian Party, more to point out the subtle flaws in the philosophy of all or nothing.
     
  10. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston

    I believe the "me" thing is a reaction to the daily forces pushing us into the collective.

    The nation was founded upon the principle of individual liberty. When the collectivists start pushing, it becomes very personal. When someone believes that a citizen should give a full financial accounting to the government each year, it becomes personal. When an someone believes it is acceptable for government bureaucrats to have access to a citizen's medical records, it becomes personal. It becomes about me.
     
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston
    Gunnut - you aren't Libertarian are you? Am I confusing you with someone else?
     
  12. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts
    Expand Collapse
    Brew Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    7,475
    13
    Location:
    PNW
    *****. I don't know if that will post but believe me, it was posted in humor friend.

    ETA: Yeah, it didn't post. Humor lost, timing is everything.
     
    #12 concretefuzzynuts, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  13. countrygun

    countrygun
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    17,069
    17
    The Libertarians had the greatest chance ever to have a POSITIVE effect on American politics in this election that they have ever had, Instead of using it they let their egos get in the way.

    If you are happy with Obama why have your own party and try to usurp the party running against him? why not just vote for him and be done with it?

    When you declare that you won't work with over 90% of the rest of the voters in the Country, Democrats or Republicans, Good luck with that.
     
  14. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston
    Then a couple of factors come into play.

    1. By working that way the overton window has steadily shifted to the left. Futile. It will continue to shift left with Romney, perhaps just a little more slowly. Had McCain won, it would have continued left.

    2. The die is cast (seriously, reference our SS exchanges). At least be good with one's conscience. Don't contribute any longer. Don't be used.
     
    #14 certifiedfunds, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  15. Syclone538

    Syclone538
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    2,086
    0
    I will not vote for more government.
     
  16. countrygun

    countrygun
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    17,069
    17
    Exactly the self-serving attitude I expect.

    Set off down a path that leads nowhere and you never have to feel guilty for never getting anywhere.
     
  17. Chronos

    Chronos
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    3,541
    10
    The younger generation of libertarians are more likely taking a look at the path that playing party politics has blazed, and noticing that it leads straight to hell.
     
  18. Chronos

    Chronos
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    3,541
    10
    If you want young libertarians to play ball, you've got to show them something other than catastrophic failure. The following track record is not what they are interested in signing up for:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. JBnTX

    JBnTX
    Expand Collapse
    Texas

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    19,546
    3,597
    Location:
    Texas
    :agree:

    FINALLY a libertarian with a little bit of common sense.
    You people need to listen to concretefuzzynuts.

    Your personal libertarian principles and political beliefs will not change a damn thing in this country.

    Only votes that are cast count. Refusing to vote accomplishes nothing.

    It's NOT about more or less government, it's about changing the direction of this country.

    You make a change in this country by voting for Romney.
    Nothing else matters.

    ..
     
    #19 JBnTX, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
    Expand Collapse
    Tewwowist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    51,601
    4,102
    Location:
    Houston

    Unfortunately for you folks, you're in no position to lecture about this stuff.

    Besides, you aren't libertarian. Why did you jump in?