close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

to the folks who say 9mm would never equal 357

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by G-34, Nov 18, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    18,106
    612
    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    1430 FPS from a G19? It likely hits 1500 from a G17. Awesome.
     
  2. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    18,106
    612
    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    You are quite correct, sir. A casual examination of the cartridge cases confirms this. :cool:
     


  3. unit1069

    unit1069

    8,128
    169
    Oct 10, 2007
    So. Central US
    When I was new to firearms (not that long ago) I got caught up in velocity/energy numbers without knowing that it's the total cartridge and bullet design that creates effectiveness.

    I feel quite comfortable with 9mm for self-defense and although I am currently carrying a +P round I also would feel good about carrying a standard pressure round like HST or Gold Dot, among others.
     
  4. clarkstoncz

    clarkstoncz

    1,252
    24
    Sep 28, 2006
    Energy seems to be the real key to stopping power.

    A .357 SIG, or .357 Magnum that has only 200 foot pounds of energy would be a dismal stopper.
     
  5. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    18,106
    612
    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    I don't care who it is, or how hard they try - they'll never get the 9x19 cartridge to propel a 158gr SJHP at 1400-1500 FPS. The barrel length won't matter, either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  6. oldman11

    oldman11

    4,994
    1,891
    Mar 1, 2012
    Texas
    I'm sure you already know this, but I wish to reiterate. 9mm owners are very defensive about their guns. In their own minds the 9mm round is every bit as good as any other round out there despite proof to the opposite. It's a pride of ownership thing
     
  7. 9 inches of penetration doesn't come close to equalling .357. Most likely would have had worse penetration after punching through clothes AND ribs. I personally would choose a 124gr +P Gold Dot over this +P+ load any day. That great expansion does nothing for you if it can't reach vital organs after hitting bone, like after going through an arm before hitting the chest. No thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  8. unit1069

    unit1069

    8,128
    169
    Oct 10, 2007
    So. Central US
    While I agree that some 9mm owners fit your description don't believe most of them do.

    My own thinking is that with the advances in bullet technology over the past two decades the effectiveness of 9mm has been greatly enhanced, not that it wasn't dropping felons and enemy combatants for one hundred years prior to that.
     
  9. fredj338

    fredj338

    21,708
    923
    Dec 22, 2004
    so.cal.
    Yeah, if you believe the vel numbers, there still is that pesky Sectional density thing. The short for caliber 9mm just isn't going to have the same penetration as a 125gr 357 @ the same vel, bullet design being the same. Some are really impressed w/ the energy numbers light & fast have but unless the bullet makes it into the vitals, it doesnt' mean a lot & for handgun, erngy number diff just aren't taht big a deal. So 400# vs 500#, so what?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  10. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    18,083
    18
    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    Which one you suppose gonna hold more powder?

    [​IMG]

    Damn physics... :steamed:
     
  11. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    41,610
    8,264
    Jan 16, 2005
    Kentucky
    So the theory here is that the only reason 9mm didn't measure up to .357 is we just never realized you could load up 9mm to 1400+ fps, huh?

    Gosh, why didn't we ever think of that?:upeyes:

    Not a good idea.
     
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    41,610
    8,264
    Jan 16, 2005
    Kentucky
    The they have an awful lot of shootings where numerous hits fail to stop or kill, good guys and bad, that they have to ignore.
     
  13. unit1069

    unit1069

    8,128
    169
    Oct 10, 2007
    So. Central US
    If case capacity is the critical factor why is the 9mm just as effective as the .38 Special? Of course the former is loaded to a much higher pressure. My own opinion is that I'll take a high capacity 9mm over a .38 Special revolver, all things being equal.

    Technology is ever-evolving and since the 9mm and .357 Magnum bullet size is almost identical perhaps someday the 9mm can safely be loaded to match the Magnum. My problem with accepting the hyper velocity rounds is the danger of overpressure due to pushing the envelope.

    The Magnum has a lot of head start in bullet design from its inception, from what I've learned. In these threads I've wondered why the specialty ammo companies aren't using the 125-grain .357sig bullets in their hyper hot 9mm products. That would make sense to me.

    For example, Hornady's 124-grain XTP 9mm bullet has the deep cavity design whereas their 124-grain .357sig is a shallow cup design. For boutique ammo companies pushing the velocity envelope wouldn't it make sense for them to load the Speer 6-petal 125-grain shallow cup .357sig bullet in their 9mm +P+ rounds advertised at 1400 fps?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  14. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    2,398
    2
    Oct 21, 2005
    J-Ville NC
    I think they will, just need a little more time. I'm not a business man but I would venture to guess that the boutique manufactures need time to process results and feed back, to weigh certain ideas based on demand and other things. What takes a couple of years for us to see might only seem like only the blink of an eye to a manufacturer. I'm not a 9mm fan but if it's prolific nature leads the way for construction improvements...I think it will be worth the wait for all terminal ballistic enthusiasts and defensive shooters among all service caliber variations. Things seem to be moving along quite quickly because of the big names and boutique manufacturer's efforts, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  15. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    18,083
    18
    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    Manufacturers gotta keep .38 special at pressures that the old guns can handle. It's a question of frame strength. In the 50's Elmer Keith was loading a 173 grain cast boolit in .38 special brass that would make 1,200+ fps from a 3-1/2" model 27. Try putting a 173 grain bullet in a 9mm case and see how much room is left for powder. You were on to something though... if loaded to similar pressures, there is no way the 9mm could keep up. Why? Case volume. It will do the same work at lower pressures, or outperform it with equal pressure.

    And what type of technology is going to hit the 9mm that couldn't also be used in the .357 mag?
     
  16. unit1069

    unit1069

    8,128
    169
    Oct 10, 2007
    So. Central US
    Well that's why I'll take 9mm over a .38 Special revolver; twice the number of rounds with at least the equivalent or better stopping power without any additional weight. I don't know of any semi-auto .38 Special handguns but I was able to shoot a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle at the range once. It was a massive, heavy pistol completely unsuited for my personal uses. So the large case volume --- in my opinion --- has definite drawbacks when it comes to size and weight.

    The 9mm may never equal the real or potential power of .357 Magnum but since the Magnum is already the benchmark standard for handgun effectiveness I think any additional configurations for that caliber would have special applications over and above personal self-defense requirements.
     
  17. ojabog

    ojabog

    177
    0
    Oct 5, 2011
    And you 9mm gun explodes in the process of firing these hi pressure loads.
     
  18. Rob1109

    Rob1109

    182
    2
    Jul 4, 2010
    No, because the 9mm will never have a 8 3/8" barrel that Hornaday uses for that 1500fps!
     
  19. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    11,682
    1
    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    Mine does it in a 4".
     
  20. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    18,083
    18
    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    Yeah, but you don't have 17+1 capacity.

    :whistling:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.