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Thoughts on the 5.45 vs 5.56 in AR's

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by bigmoney890, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

    1,486
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    Nov 8, 2011
    Boone, NC
    I'm trying to word this so it doesn't get moved in the caliber corner, so in the AR platform, what on your opinions on the 5.45x39 vs the 5.56x45? I suspect the majority will say 5.56 because it's "what they already have."

    Obviously each has it's own advantages, but can you see yourself picking up a 5.45 upper IF you had the cash as a possible cheaper training option? If cash isn't an issue, then would you ever consider the 5.45?

    As far as I can tell, the main points are as follows(please feel free to add any pros or cons in your comments):

    Pros for 5.45 are:
    Cheap
    Comparable ballistics to 5.56
    Easy conversion to 5.56
    Cheap
    Cheap

    Cons for 5.45 are:
    Not many U.S. applications
    Not a lot of different bullet weights and combinations
    Most ammo out there is corrosive

    AND

    Pros for 5.56 are:
    You can fill in the blanks yourself

    Cons for 5.56 are:
    Getting outrageously expensive



    So simply for the argument that it's less than half the price of 5.56, is it a viable training option? Why or why not?
     
  2. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

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    Amarillo, Tx
    If I could get a 5.45mm upper for around $350 and the ammo stayed cheap, sure I'd go for it.
     


  3. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

    1,486
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    Nov 8, 2011
    Boone, NC
    PSA has a 5.45 upper on sale right now for $269.95. And spikes makes a BCG in 5.45 for around $100. That's just a tad under $400 for both with shipping.


    Plus, I figure that in roughly 5 cases, the upper will pay for itself.
     
  4. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

    38,413
    3,776
    Jun 25, 2004
    Amarillo, Tx

    Hmm, if I wasn't closing in on being done with my varmint build I would probably jump on it.
     
  5. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

    1,486
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    Nov 8, 2011
    Boone, NC
    Well my thinking is that the 5.45 will give guys the opportunity to start putting alot of rounds downrange for about half the price. I, for one, simply can't afford to shoot like I want to, so anything that helps me shoot more is fine by me.

    I'm sure a lot of guys will chime in in the morning.
     
  6. michael_b

    michael_b BRC #1492

    1,022
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    Sep 3, 2011
    Kansas
    Wow. Interesting question. Well, what is 5.56 going for around you compared to 5.45?

    Just curious.
     
  7. arclight610

    arclight610

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    Surplus 5.45 is like half the price of 5.56
     
  8. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Alaska, again (for now)
    if I could get it cheap enough, I'd shoot it. Its not a bad round
     
  9. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy ********* Moderator Moderator Millennium Member Lifetime Member

    12,972
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    Buried in the X-files
    For training, I'd get a M&P15/22 before a 5.45mm.

    The ammo's everywhere and cheap, and it can be used for a multitude of purposes, stocking up a half million .22 is a bit easier than in other calibers.

    Only way i'd go 5.45mm was if I was in a country where it was readily available in a wide variety, cheap.

    Currently, 5.45 isn't cheap enough for me to want to switch from 5.56mm.
     
  10. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    8,983
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    North East Ohio
    5.56 is outrageously expensive? I don't think it's all that bad. Sure it went up but is certainly affordable enough to shoot alot of it.

    I have noting against the 5.45 round but in a AR, unless the ammo stays cheap and a compatible complete upper was available for around the $300-$400 mark, I'd stick with 5.56.
     
  11. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    8,983
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    Mar 25, 2008
    North East Ohio

    :agree:
     
  12. samuse

    samuse

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    South TX

    Add in magazines and optics and you're lookin' at $2K.

    You could just spend $2K on 5K rounds of 5.56 and actually train with the gun you're training to use and you don't have to mess with buying a bunch of 5.45 crap.
     
  13. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    Dallas
    Or a dedicated upper. I found a device that will allow me to use the M&P 15/22 magazines in my CMMG and will provide the bolt hold function like the M&P. If it works, it will be the best of both worlds, true weight of an AR, with standard functions and reliable magazines.
     
  14. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

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    Boone, NC
    A Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22 would be a great option, but I was trying to stay as close as possible to the "real thing." I can already see the trash talking coming :rofl:

    A
    Magazines and optics don't cost $1600.

    You can use the same magazines as your AR (if you load them to half capacity they feed fine). Plus since this would be for training, you'd be using the same optics as your 5.56.


    I understand where you're coming from, but that arguement is not logical.
     
  15. cyphertext

    cyphertext

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    Dallas
    You shouldn't see much trash talk...the S&W 15-22 is a great trainer. Same manual of arms, can have the same trigger and stock as your 5.56. You can set one up to mimic the 5.56 rather easily. Only negative you ever hear about is the weight, with the S&W being too light. I guess you could add weight in the "buffer tube" if it really bothered you.
     
  16. mjkeat

    mjkeat

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    Jun 17, 2009
    Midwest
    Not saying I agree or disagree but how is it not logical to add in the price of magazines and optics? If I use a RDS or some sort of magnified optic on my main AR why wouldn't I want to use the same optic on my training AR? It only makes sense to do so. Why go to all the trouble of putting together a training rig just to have some different reticle or style of optic? I really don't want to be moving my optic back and forth or short loading my magazines. My training should be as close as possible to what I may encounter and my gear should mirror this.
     
  17. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

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    Nov 8, 2011
    Boone, NC
    What you said is exactly right, IF money wasn't a concern.

    If someone wanted to train to as close to what he/she was going to use, then ideally the same optics and such would be used. For a budget minded person, the same mags and optics would have to be re-used.

    If you had the ability to outfit a AR with a new 5.45 upper, 5.45 mags, and another optic, then it wouldnt make much sense to switch to the 5.45 for training purposes, since obviously you have the income to buy enough 5.56 to train with.
     
  18. bigmoney890

    bigmoney890

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    Nov 8, 2011
    Boone, NC
    I was refering to the 5.45 when I said that. But from what I've seen, support for the 15-22 is huge for supplement to 5.56 for training.
     
  19. never enough

    never enough

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    Sep 15, 2011
    The only spikes BCG im seeing in 5.45 is $275!
     
  20. samuse

    samuse

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    South TX
    I agree with you on the first part. 22lr is not a viable training alternative to a 5.56. You can work on the 'manual of arms' with dry practice.

    Magazines and optics don't add up to $1,600, but mags, optics, an upper and 5 cases of 5.45 do. Someone mentioned that a 5.45 upper would 'pay for itself' in 5 cases of ammo. Bull****. It didn't pay for itself, that's just the point at which you spent the same amount of money per round.

    Look at it this way: You could shoot 5K rounds of high quality 5.56 for the same price as screwing around with a 5.45.

    Plus, if you are taking off you optic every time you 'train', you need to figure in the cost of ammo to confirm/zero your 5.56 upper. I wouldn't be messing with my optic like that on a serious use gun. Get it set up, confirm function/compatibility/POI and leave it alone.