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The real reason NYPD disallowed Kahrs for off duty!

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by ajgranda, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  2. Narkcop


    Jan 12, 2003
    Truth be told I think NYPD brass would prefer it if their Police were unarmed and just talked real nice to people so that they wouldn't break the law.

  3. Beretta92guy


    Nov 15, 2011
    well what is the trigger weight on those Kahrs, 2 pounds?????
  4. P35


    Oct 18, 2006
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    looks like some of the NYCPD have poor firearm handling skills
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  5. plouffedaddy


    Apr 1, 2011
    The NYPD and other departments fear of negligent discharges is mind boggling to me. A former LEO myself, I think the risk of missing a target due to a 10lb or more trigger pull is much greater than the risk of a 5lb trigger being too light. I understand adrenaline and all, but there is nothing wrong with most factory triggers as far as safety is concerned.
  6. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

    Apr 13, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY

    Just how do you get Kahr dropping the NYPD out of that article?

    Kahr has been given MULTIPLE chances by the NYPD over the years to remediate their POS pistol. Kahr tried but couldn't get their guns to hold a trigger job to the department standards.

    Years ago a prohibition on new Kahrs was enacted with current ones being grandfathered. Now, there has been such a spate of severe trigger failures that FTS has decided to remove them totally from service for officer safety.

    To the rest of the posters with their wise comments, how many armed officers do you train and maintain pistols, rifles, shotguns and sub guns each year?

    If the answer is less than 35,000 then may I suggest you could learn a thing or two from the NYPD Firearms and Tactics Section

    They are always willing to help brother departments
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  7. oldsoldier


    Jun 22, 2008
    I looked the gun up and it is a trigger cocking DAO pistol. Your comments has me curious. Are you saying the failures are due to the gun firing without the trigger pulled say from dropping it? Otherwise I don't see how it could fire without the officer pulling the trigger.
  8. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    tagged for clarification and answer.
  9. El_Ron1


    Apr 15, 2004
    Redneck Sparta
    Donuts take out more cops that Kahr ever could.
  10. seanmac45

    seanmac45 CLM

    Apr 13, 2000
    Brooklyn, NY
    There were a series of issues. Some involved the striker safeties failing but the biggest problems involve the trigger pull weights falling bellow accepted minimum standards. Whether others agree with their standard weight or not it was a basic requirement for them to remain in service. Kahr hated to lose the NYPD account, but their product was not up to standards.
  11. Narkcop


    Jan 12, 2003
    What pistol meets your high standards?:upeyes:
  12. Metal Angel

    Metal Angel

    Oct 20, 2010
    He is saying that by refusing to accommodate the NYPD's ridiculous demand of a 13lb trigger, Kahr is effectively dropping NYPD.

    I agree with Kahr that a 13lb trigger would be ridiculous. I don't think my wife could even pull a 13lb trigger, let alone squeeze off accurate shots. Also, I don't see how you could accidentally pull a Kahr trigger- the pull is so loooong. Especially when Glock triggers are shorter and lighter... Which brings me to my next point.

    I recently did some research on the Kahr action, and I'll be honest, it has me concerned. Whatever they call it, it's not truly double action, it's 3/4 of the way to single action, which means if something slips inside, it CAN fire. Glocks are the same way, but not including the trigger safety, it has two internal safeties, which means you have a backup if one fails. The Kahr SHOULD never fail, but I am a service tech, and I know mechanical things that should never fail still do fail. I think Kahr calls the striker block an "internal safety", but to me, a safety is something that accounts for failure of normal operation... Like what Glock has.

    Anyway, not bashing Kahr... but I am second guessing the PM9 purchase I had planned for this week. It might turn into a 26.
  13. Sgt127


    Nov 5, 2002
    I have several Glocks and Kahrs. I think the striker on a Glock is far more pre-loaded than a Kahr. All that trigger pull on the Kahr goes for loading up the striker. And, safety wise, they are identical as far as the firing pin safety. Slightly different way of accomplishing it, but, same net result.
  14. Precisely!
  15. I wouldn't second guess the PM9. That's going to be my next purchase for Hot weather carry. It is considerably smaller and lighter than the G26. The G26 is not a "true" subcompact. The same goes for XD40sc. If that doesn't matter to you then go for the G26, although I never cared for it's ergos when I had one and bought the XD40sc.
  16. Metal Angel

    Metal Angel

    Oct 20, 2010

    The Glock site is flash, so I can't give you a direct link, but you should be able to find it. The striker is in the exact same 3/4 (if not more) cocked position on both. The reason the trigger feels different is because Kahr has made it so that you have to pull further to get the same mechanical movement of the striker, making the trigger feel smoother. Kahr has nothing sitting in front of the striker as a back up safety like Glock does.
  17. Can you clarify even further?

    Did NYPD find a problem with Kahr pistols "going off" by themselves, or did officers just accidentally pull the triggers (or have somethine like a jacket drawstring get caught in the trigger)? Seems like these are the only two possibilites, and everything else is secondary.

    I ask this question because I have a Kahr. I want to know if it will just "go off" on its own.

    This issue perhaps is similar to Glock, where someone pulls the trigger then says the gun went off on its own. Glock offers different trigger weights if individuals or departments want a heavier pull. If Kahr doesn't offer the particular weight NYPD wants, I don't see how that makes Kahr a POS.

    I've pointed out on GT some potential problems that might contribute to jams in the Kahr pistol, and I've described potential fixes, and what worked for me. But that still doesn't make the Kahr a POS.

    But there might be other information you have, so that is why I'm asking. This also affects how I respond to newbies I instruct in person, who may ask for carry gun suggestions.

    Thank you for any further info :)
  18. Metal Angel

    Metal Angel

    Oct 20, 2010
    I actually like the ergos of the 26... just feels like a smaller version of my 19. My dad has a 27 and I love it, but you are right about not being a "true subcompact". It's kinda big... which is the only thing pushing me towards the Kahr.
  19. ronin.45


    Apr 24, 2008
    If the officers took the time to learn proper firearm safety they wouldn't be having all these "accidents"! Anyone who thinks a 12-13# trigger is required for safety is an idiot. Kahr was not able to make their trigger pull that bad so the NYPD disallowed them.
  20. cowboy1964


    Sep 4, 2009
    7.5 lbs is too light of a trigger? Good grief. No wonder they install NY-2 triggers in their Glock 19s. And Kahr's have long pulls too, if the PM9 is typical of them.

    Supposedly NYPD wanted a heavy Glock trigger because of all the old-timers that transitioned from revolvers. It's time to move on, NYPD.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
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