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The Practical/Tactical .410

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by Pfletch83, Sep 11, 2013.


  1. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    I know I know plenty are laughing about the idea of a fighting .410 and I've had plenty of folks question my knowledge as well as my sanity about using a .410 for such a task.


    But I will say that if the shooter knows his/her weapon and the limits of it's range that the .410 will do just as well if not better than expected.

    With the correct for task loads that are now on the market such as the Federal 3-inch #4 buck and the 2-1/2 inch '000' buck, the .410 can do exactly what is needed for a home defense situation.

    A pump action like the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500E series allow the user to put shot on target faster than a heavier recoiling shotgun, reduced weight means that a greater number of family members can put it to use, and with proper training they can place #4 or '000' buck where it's needed to stop a threat cold.

    The tactical .410 in general should wear a cylinder choke barrel for greater flexibility with different loads.

    The actual length doesn't really matter but I like an 18.5 inch barrel, that is what both of mine wear at all times for a number of reasons.

    Both of mine are Mossberg 500's due to the manual of arms being the same and as Clint smith is often quoted as saying "2 is one and 1 is none" because all things man made can break and at the worst of times.

    While home defense is the main reason I have both setup and ready to go when needed, most often they serve as pest removal devices from around the home or garden.

    They also help ease new shooters into using a shotgun.

    Don't get me wrong I like the 12's even though I can't use them anymore, I also like the 20's of which I'm in the market for as a hunting and an addition to my home defense line up.

    But in my book the .410 is very important as a defender and as a recreational tool.

    If a person is willing to give it a try and use it within it's limits, a .410 pump will prove to be a highly useful shotgun to have.
     

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  2. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom
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    The defense loads developed since the success of the judge revolvers look wicked as well.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
     

  3. deputy tom

    deputy tom
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    I'm currently breaking in a holster for my .410 Governor. I like to keep a .410 single shot available and am looking to obtain a .410 Mossberg pump. I like them for ease of deployment and low recoil. tom. :cool:
     
  4. MarkCO

    MarkCO
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    Fixed it for you.:whistling:

    There is no good reason for me to try a .410, there are much better tools I can use for defensive purposes, but I am not you. I would rather you have something you are comfortable deploying than having nothing or relying on 911.

    If you have honestly evaluated your capabilities, needs, environment and have settled on a system that works for you, you don't need to tell anyone how great it is. If (and I hope this does not occur) you have to use your chosen platform to defend innocent life, it will work, or it will not. You and your loved ones are the only ones that it will really matter to other than us being happy, or sad, for your eventual outcome.

    Take your choice to the range and practice to get all you can out of the platform thus giving yourself the best chance of prevailing when defending innocent life.
     
  5. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    No offense taken at all.

    As I said in my intro I like all firearms and all calibers.
     
  6. VinnieD

    VinnieD
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    While I believe the 12ga is king of stopping power, I'm hardly willing to stand in front of a .410.
     
  7. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy
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    You can kill someone with a .22 as well, but it's not optimal.

    If recoil of a 12ga is too much, a 5.56mm carbine loaded with JHPs is extremely effective at interpersonal argument stopping at close range.
     
  8. Kilrain

    Kilrain
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    Obviously you don't own a 10 gauge and are recoil sensitive.........:supergrin:.............I kid, I kid.......

    But really, I have a 10 gauge Ithaca Mag-10 and a bunch of buckshot and slugs. Only 3 shots unfortunately, but a helluva' 3 shots it is.

    But really, again, I use a 12 gauge for HD.

    :tongueout:
     
  9. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    To be completely honest a .22 rimfire has been effectively used in more documented home defense/personal defense shooting cases than any centerfire handgun or long arm.

    http://gunssavelives.net/browse-by-gun-type/

    And yes I do own as well as like the AR-15 rifle they are good weapons to use when you need a lot of firepower in a short amount of time, but I still favor a shotgun for room distance threats.

    My colt is mostly for longer ranged target shooting.

    But I have looked at the T-14 upper and thought about it's use for a home defense setup.
     
    #9 Pfletch83, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  10. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    A lot of folks (myself included) get hung up on this or that piece of gear or make/model of shotgun,rifle,or handgun. The caliber of said firearms.but when it really matters the only important things needed are to use the right type of ammo, aim, and place the round(s) where it needs to be when/if that dreadful day ever comes.

    With that said I would like to see more options made for the .410 as it relates to aftermarket stocks.

    An m-4 style stock would go a long way to improve a .410 model like the Mossberg 50455 (Cruiser) the pistol grip on that model fills the hand nicely. such a stock would allow better fitting for any member of a family that would need to use it.
     
    #10 Pfletch83, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  11. leadbutt

    leadbutt
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    My wife for various reasons, will not shoot handguns and can not handle shotguns above the 410 range, we settled on the Mossberg HD 410, she has settled on buck and slug loads, waiting to find enoung of the newer buck and 41 cal bullet load out to try, the pistol grip on the pump handle helps her and she is willing to practice with it
     
  12. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet
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    I like the concept of the Rossi Circuit Judge 18" bbl .410 revolver shotgun for home defense for folks who aren't "gunnies".

    No pump action to short stroke, no need to clear to clear stoppages. Just aim and press the trigger.

    Loaded with Federal 000 buck, which reliably penetrates more than 12", it's plenty up to the task of home defense.
     
    #12 Derbel McDillet, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  13. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    Well it offers the level of rapid shots equal to a semi-auto, can be left fully loaded for any length of time without the worry of magazine springs wearing out, and can be recharged with speed loaders.

    My favorite of the buckshot loads offered by federal are the 3-inch #4 buck , it reduces the chance of over penetration and increases the pellet (9 .24 caliber projectiles) count per shell fired, and at close range it has plenty of smack to get the job done.

    (I am also a fan of the four pellet '000' load because it has more velocity than the 3-inch load of the same, and is a heavy hitter in the new line of .410 ammo)
     
  14. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    One thing I've been thinking about in addition to an M-4 style stock is to try a forearm with a shorter reach and see if it could fit the models that wear 5 round magazine tubes Like the field model 50104 and special purpose Model 50455)

    The shorter throw of the forearm should increase lock time and smooth the action up a bit by making it more rigid, and would be an aid to smaller statured shooters that might need to use it.
     
    #14 Pfletch83, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  15. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    I've seen the models with the spreader choke on the end, and have checked the specs, I've been wondering about something because I keep seeing one spec sheet listing it as a 5+1 with 2-1/2 inch shells and in other specs sheets as having a 8-9 total capacity with 2-1/2 inch shells.

    How many does your wife's model hold in the mag tube?
     
  16. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    This is one of the reasons I insist on a cylinder choke barrel on a .410 if it's going to be used with '000' buck loads.

    The first target a piece of cardboard, the target is a traced out CD, distance was just a little under 30 feet (more like 25-27 feet) which would be long range for a home defense encounter, unless you're very rich and live in a multi-acre mansion.

    The aiming point is just a little smaller than a dime. the first three rounds were fired as fast as I could cycle the action, sight and pull the trigger,the first three are grouped on top of each other, with the fourth taking out the aiming point after some adjustment to POA.

    http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/Pfletch83/41016_zps2d957090.jpg

    The second target was two rounds, again the same size target and aiming point.

    The first round went high and the second was on target, at roughly the same distance and using the same federal 2-1/2 inch '000' load.

    http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/Pfletch83/4108_zps7f03cf46.jpg


    This pic is to show the exact scale of the target used and to keep things honest.

    http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/Pfletch83/410targetproof_zps4582321d.jpg
     
  17. sotto

    sotto
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    Being an old guy, I used a .410 over and under Stevens for most of my young life to take all kinds of game--pheasants, rabbits, squirrels etc before being informed that it "wasn't really enough gun" and that a 12 gauge is what I really wanted.

    OK, so many 12 gauges later, I'm now having loads of fun with just a cheap Rossi single-shot 20 gauge that I've cut down and tacticalized. Suddenly, shooting is fun again and I have a great, versatile and easy to shoot tool. I have a Mec Jr. press in 20 gauge and enough empties, powder and shot to last me the rest of my life. Bring on the bad squirrels.
     
  18. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    I like the 20 gauge, it has a number of good things going for it and as I've mentioned earlier I'm planning on getting a Mossberg super Bantam to match my .410 500's as it relates to operation,sight picture ect.


    I've also been planning on having the 22-inch multi-choke barrel cut down to 18.5 and re-threaded to use the factory chokes.
     
  19. Jamesey

    Jamesey
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    I apologize if this is veering off topic, but the mention of the Rossi revolver got me thinking (dangerous pastime!): could a .410 pump shotgun cycle/fire .45 colt cartridges? I realize the smoothbore wouldn't put any spin on the bullets (zipgun?) & there may be NO sense in doing it; I'm just wondering if it would fire them.

    Sent from my LG-VS700 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
     
  20. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83
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    I wouldn't risk it for a number of reasons. The .410 barrel diameter is smaller than the .45 caliber bullet, the other reasons being that the pump action isn't as strong as a break action shotgun or rifle and that very well could over stress the action causing a major failure as well as injury to the shooter or anyone around them.

    I know where you're coming from with this, I've watched the Iraqvet8888 video too, Barry and Eric (as well as anyone else on here ) would agree with me on this when I say, never try to shoot a caliber that wasn't meant for a particular firearm, the .410 is a .410 the .45 is a .45

    The reason the Taurus Judge, Smith&Wesson Gov. and other .45/.410 firearms can shoot both types of rounds is because the barrel is .45 caliber and the chambers are rated for both rounds.
     
    #20 Pfletch83, Sep 17, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013