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Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by BruceO, Jan 19, 2010.
Thanks for the update Bruce. I can wait until May in the hopes of seeing some Bren Tens in person. Spirit does sound like a reliable company to do business with.
I'll wait until I see pictures before holding my breath.
"Spirit does sound like a reliable company to do business with. "
Just what does Spirit make currently anyway? As far as I can tell, they currently manufacture absolutely nothing. The LLC was formed in December 2007.
Thanks for sharing guys, hope for the real deal.
Sickening, just sickening.
How about Southern Ohio Gun, Lew Horton, CDNN, or any one of the many large distributors, rather than some made-up company?!?
Why would you spend all the money and effort to get something like this to this stage and then pull something like this?
That was the second thing I found disturbing: announcing a "distributer" nobody ever heard of who's got exactly zero previous wholesale firearms experience that anybody can point to, including, apparently, Vltor ... ?
The first thing was when Vltor announced Tanfoglio's Witness magazines as the default choice for use in the "Fortis," revived "Bren Ten," or whatever the final, actual production pistols will be christened ...
Or: Jerry's Sports Center, RSR, etc., ... all of which are known and experienced wholesalers of known reliability, with established business reputations among U.S. FFL-holders.
When i came across the 10mm i thought who it would be nice to have my old reliable 1911 platform in this round. I began to do research and found that Glock has been around since the beginning and was the only company to continue to manufacture a reliable weapon for this round.
Others, may and have come and gone but it looks like Glock will always be there.
If i want another 10 mm then i'll save the money and get a 29 or long slide or maybe even a carbine.
I love my (fullsize metal) Witness, but new mags for it are a nightmare. Easy to find, but a ROYALE female hound to break in. Until you've tried it, you havent been Really frustrated.
(anyone know any tricks to speed the witness mag breakin process?)
I'll be interested to see the final Vltor product.
I've had no problems with my factory witness mags. Installed the +5% wolf springs from the get go and they all run fine.
"I've had no problems with my factory witness mags. Installed the +5% wolf springs from the get go and they all run fine. "
My question is:
Why should a brand new factory magazine need to be rebuilt in order to function correctly?
The problem is that the functionality of the Witness magazines has been all over the board. I understand that it is currently in vogue to replace springs in order to cure all manner of problems, real or perceived. Why should this be necessary? It really does seem that in this day and age, most all gun makers cannot design a weapon with the correct springs and therefore, the first order of business is to install aftermarket product.
Anyway, quality magazines should function correctly right out of the box. Beyond that, if folks just have to tinker with them, that's a different story.
I've received a PM on this issue that may give some insight.
Witness mags are said to be sensitive to the length of the round and 10mm ammo at its max length may cause problems. Obviously some brands may work better than others and you need to watch the OAL on reloads.
I'll be looking into this later as I find the time.
Read through the thread and there as some price discussion. it seems that a Viced model may set you back $1299 and a basic spec ops 1099. I thought these were supposed to be sub 1k guns? or did I just make that up in my head? Also when I say the pics on Ken Lundes site yesterday I found it curious that all the guns he had taken pics of still said Fortis. Also there was a pic where you could see some of the display materials, ie a stand or something, and that still said Fortis also. If it wasnt for the wear on the guns and the fact that theyre on Lundes site with other stuff from the 2010 show I would have thought the pics were from last year.
I had high hopes for this gun, but if you have a year and you cant even manage to get one production model and properly branded materials to the biggest gun manufacturers show of the year and instead show up with the same thing you had the year before. I dont know what to say. Something is starting to not smell right.
It creates extra cost and wasted time for the end user just to obtain reliably functioning magazines, when (a) any 10mm/.45acp magazines for the new Bren should be reliable from the get-go and not have to be "tweaked," and (b) they should be Vltor factory magazines, not someone else's product (especially from a source with known, long-standing QC issues).
I too wish Vltor had used the magazines first supplied with the Bren Ten, but they would of had to contracted with Meggar or somebody else to make the mags again. I do know some 10MM rounds like the Remington seemed so long I could only get four to five rounds in a 1911 magazine. I have a Witness Elite Stock 10MM and EAA Magazines that are not that great. Some of the feedlips needs reforming and the springs aren't that great. I do hope the Bren Ten comes out this summer. A Poster on the Bren Ten Forum said Vltor had a slide on display with Bren Ten on it instead of Fortis.
That poster was me. I had a source who was one of the first thru the door. There is an exceptional amount of talk about this at the Bren-Ten.com Forum. None is very good. I haven't seen any of the gushing comments buy the usual folks at Vltor's Blog either since the Show started.
I guess it depends on how you define reliable.
I will get a Vltor Ten if they are in the same projected price range as currently stated.