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THE #1 Pre-attack Indicator

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Sam Spade, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

    May 4, 2003
  2. Bill Lumberg

    Bill Lumberg BTF Inventor

    Jun 14, 2002
    I always sort of took it for granted that guttural screaming was the number one pre attack indicator. It's what I do right before.

  3. This guy subscribes to the it takes two to fight. My grade school teachers use to say that. So if you don't fight back, you got punched out. If you fight back, you are the problem. And people wonder why bulling happens.
  4. fastbolt


    Jun 9, 2002
    CA Central Coast
    For you folks carrying a badge (active LE only training), you might find it an interesting way to spend 8 hours to take the 1-day class from Dr Steve Rhoads Ph.D (former police chief) on Detecting Danger.

    Interesting discussion involving subconscious, verbal & nonverbal communications, phenomenological thought process, and proxemics & danger.

    The verbal communications discussion highlights verbal indicators of deception and how word tense and usage can be used for evaluation of individuals' intentions, and the nonverbal discussion highlights how to interpret specific non-verbal gestures that suggest emotional responses of anger or violence.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  5. This guy is an idiot, who sees the world through a sheltered prism. The 'violence' he's used to seeing sounds like drunk morons acting stupid in bars. If he lived in the real world he'd be aware of many victims and would be victimes who've successfully defended themselves. It's really that simple and not worth the effort to even go into further detail refuting this brainless article.
  6. Lowjiber


    Jan 26, 2012
    Las Vegas
    I agree.
  7. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    I've also had success in the past by squaring up and standing my ground, giving it right back to them. Bullies count on people backing down, fighters don't back down. You throw the bullies off, they think maybe you're a fighter and they maybe bit off more than they can chew, as they know they're just bullies.

    Provided that initial display is followed by a way to let them back down without losing face, and they back down every time. They may fight to avoid losing face, or they may back down if they're sufficiently scared of you. The fight is more likely.

    Having said that, that was before I got my CPL and started carrying a gun. If that approach backfires now and I end up fighting, and end up having to shoot, its going to look more like mutual combat, and I'm likely in for a lot more trouble. If I'm lucky it'll just amount to a lot of extra scrutiny and I'll still end up with no charges. If not.... it'll look like I engaged in mutual combat confident if things went south I had a gun on me to cash the checks my mouth made that I couldn't cash myself.

    So at this point, someone acts like an *******, I'm resisting the temptation to "teach him a lesson" and walking away. You engage if you want. The pistol is for defending your life, not your ego. You have to learn to be the adult, often the only adult, in the situation.

    I think its a good article and good food for thought, especially for anyone carrying a weapon. Then every confrontation has the possibility of escalating to deadly force. Be aware of that when you decide whether to start a confrontation, or engage in a confrontation someone else started with you over say, a parking space.

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  8. Foxtrotx1


    Jan 29, 2010
    Scottsdale AZ
    "Hey, got a cigarette?" is a pretty typical way to start a hold up.
  9. Sgt. Rambo

    Sgt. Rambo

    Apr 1, 2003
    South Jersey

    +1 Seen it dozens of times over the years.
  10. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    I think you miss the point of the article. The most likely violence you will experience may well be from an obnoxious jerk, not a robber. That's been my experience. Only been in 1 robbery, and had lots of confrontations with idiots.

    He specifically mentions that is not the only source of violence, does not suggest you not defend yourself if attacked. He's merely pointing out the most common way people talk themselves into violence when they could be avoiding it easily. Seems to me the best strategy is to avoid a fight if you're not in one, and to win if you are in one. But even if you win, you're likely to be injured to some degree. So seems to me he has given real good advice to avoid the kinds of fights that are avoidable.

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  11. jlpskydive


    Apr 17, 2009
    I think this paper goes off the premise that you have already done a few things wrong. Put yourself in a place you shouldn't be and had a few drinks on top of it. Either way a recipe for disaster to start with. Now if I'm at a concert with the wife and some jackass decides to get handsy, or tell us we shouldn't be there (after we paid our 20 to 100 bucks to get it). Well BULLY you have met your match and I will stand my ground, but I'm 6'3 and 195 and little to no body fat. And at one point in my life really liked to fight and was pretty good at it. If I'm someplace that I really don't want to or should be, I will make a tactical advance to the rear......
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  12. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

    If you show your ass... you stand a chance of getting it kicked.
  13. alabaster

    alabaster Swollen Member

    Mar 18, 2009
    Every time(Far more than I'd like to admit) that I had trouble with a tool, I was involved in something I knew not to be. Sometimes it was good I walked(Or ran) away, since I was engaged in something that would've negated the SD argument all together(Many more than 10 years ago before I had defended myself twice in situations I should have avoided anyways). Sometimes, I was legal(Like being in a bar), but still involved in something I shouldn't have been. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good(Right, B.O?!) to be involved in. If you know you're armed, and will invariably will HAVE to use your firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones if attacked, STAY AWAY from places and people that invite trouble. I live near DC, and as you can imagine, there are many druggies, drunks, and general a*****es that flood the streets and public areas around here. I ask my wife to steer clear of places that she may have to engage people in not-so-pleasant discussions or actions. I stick to it myself, too. I've never been a bad-a**, and never invited trouble, but I've never been one to spook easily either. Still, I realize the cost of defending myself even if justified is far more expensive than planning a safer trip to the store or mall, or where ever. Not engaging the lunatic-screaming-raving-brain eating- toolbag is definitely cheaper and less troublesome than spending even one of these Zombie Defense 9mms in self defense. On that note..... I better read that article.
  14. Gunhaver

    Gunhaver the wrong hands

    Jan 24, 2012
    If you've studied and understand evolutionary psychology then everything this article says makes perfect sense. Some of us have known this stuff for years and have had pleasant assault free lives as a result.

    When carrying you're obligation is to remove yourself from the confrontation because you have to remove your firearm from the confrontation. If you're not carrying then feel free to get into a mouth off contest with the other drunk a-hole if you think you can take him and don't mind sitting in jail with a broken nose.
  15. H&K 4 LIFE

    H&K 4 LIFE Leonum A Ignis

    Jan 27, 2009
    Things to remember in relation to the article...

    Do not break the law of the three stupids.

    That is, do not go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things.

    Do everything you can to de-escalate and leave a potentially hostile situation. Apologizing, even if you aren't wrong, may be the very simplest of things separating you from being forced into a circumstance where you must use deadly force to defend... and just simply walking away.

    "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.... He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." ~ Sun Tzu The Art of War
  16. I thought,"Oh look, a squirrel!" was the way they started holdups?

    At SouthNarc's class on Unknown Contacts, pre-attack indicators are very heavy discussed and acted out in FOF, not only verbal ones but also body language indicators.

    But it sure would be cool to take Dr. Rhoads class to.

  17. I'm a physician but as I've stated on other threads, in a previous life I was a bouncer. Generally when people size me up, with the look in my eyes, they determine I'm someone not to be messed with. I've yet to be challenged as an adult... Couple instances where people acted like a blow fish but when they saw my reaction backed down quick. I've been in many fights as a teen, more than most, but that's a necessity when going to an inner city school. I've never started a fight even as a teen. I don't like fights, nor do I consider myself a "tough guy", I believe I can hold my own but we all know fights are unpredictable and I have no illusions I can whip a guy who trains 2-3 hours everyday in MMA, but I do believe in the words, Sic Vis Pacem Parabellum. That is why I started boxing and lifting weights in my early teens and why I carrry and train with a firearm.

    I believe in walk softly carry a big stick. Like TBO said if you show your ass you might get it kicked. So ya, I think the author is a complete D-bag, I stand by what I said when I say he's lived a sheltered life. He's assuming everyone is your typical butt wipe who goes out drinking and gets liquid courage, which is why the prism he sees the world is warped.
  18. "with the other drunk a-hole"? Really bro? You see the world through a warped prism also. I occasionally drink but I'm ALWAYS in full control of my attitude, I'm never a "drunk a-hole". Personally if you're one of those, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun because you're an idiot and can't control yourself, just sayin.
  19. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

    May 4, 2003
    While "D-bag" reflects personal tastes, you might want to google Marc "Animal" MacYoung before you commit yourself to the "sheltered life" opinion.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  20. jellis11

    jellis11 Yippee-ki-yay

    Jul 27, 2011
    South Kakalaki
    Around here it's "hey, you got the time?"