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Terminator : Salivation [SPOILER WARNING]

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by horge, May 27, 2009.

  1. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    **SPOILER WARNING**


    Yes, "Salivation".
    Because...

    After months and months of drooling over the franchise's last chance
    at redemption (now THERE's a title, considering the Marcus story arc),
    I came away visually stirred, but with a frown and a severe want of spit.

    The first Terminator movie remains the best-constructed in the series;
    the most coherent in terms of plot and character motivation. T2 was
    a triumph of special effects --the first major movie to bring the "wow"
    of new CG SFX to the masses, although the idea of a second, and
    far more advanced, terminator being sent back in time was stretching
    things quite a bit. T3? It was simply a mess.

    Comes now T4, actually the first of the series with a real shot at real
    drama ...and the script blows it. It is ruined by gross spoonfeeding.
    What could have been a gradual revelation on Marcus, is given away in
    the first few minutes. It's like the moviemakers just couldn't decide whose
    story to tell, Marcus' or John's, the latter being no new story at all, since
    it's already part of the franchise legendarium.

    Which brings us to coherence with respect to said legendarium.
    If Kyle Reese is so high on Skynet's kill-list, this must be some alternate
    future where his status as John's father is already known, right? Reese
    isn't even a full-fledged resistance fighter yet, so why else the priority?
    So...

    Skynet had Kyle in custody for quite a stretch, and if they knew he was
    John's father-to-be, why not kill Kyle outright and negate John's very
    existence, the whole (paradoxically-flawed) logic to the prior movies?
    There are other glaring flaws, but I'll be fair and note that many films
    have been short on logic, yet have delivered bigtime with action-packed
    visuals.

    Unfortunately, "visuals" is PRECISELY where my biggest disappintment
    with T4 lies, particularly with respect to it's final battle.

    After all the buildup about Skynet's impregnability, about the supposed
    vulnerability being a well-laid trap, why so easy for the Resistance to
    fly in evac choppers, with nary an HK in sight? Just a few frames of
    Resistance aircraft engaging Skynet's defenses, in effect covering
    the rescue mission's butt, would have served, but what we got was
    more laziness on the filmmakers' part.

    The movie resorted instead, solely to copying the 'finale' template (and
    even the set design) of T and T2. Those first two movies were about
    human targets confronting a lone terminator sent against them, and so
    the scale of said finales was appropriate.

    This time, the scale and context is bigger, it's about humans attacking
    a Skynet base that is armed to the teeth; but the movie goes BACK
    to the formula of a single terminator chasing the good guy around
    some film-noir factory, totally dropping the issue of Skynet's defenses.

    Even the plot device of T101 fuel-cells being so explosive doesn't fit
    with the manner in which Sarah Conner dispatched the T101 sent after
    her, nor how a similar T101 was destroyed in T2; or there would have
    been a hell of an explosion, killing all the principals.

    Marcus' story arc ends in pure sap, not for the fact of his choice, but
    because of how it was scripted and shot. Reminded me of TV soaps
    where a character is about to undergo brain surgery, and the entire
    cast is present, standing around, while the concept of a sterile surgical
    environment is treated as a nuisance, like the audience's intelligence.

    Just had to get some of this stuff off my chest...
    as I've been cranky about it since yesterday.

    If someone out there has an explanation to make me feel better, I'd
    love to hear it.

    h.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
  2. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

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    Is this suppose to "complement" the Terminator TV series?
     

  3. 1985 4Runner

    1985 4Runner Agitator

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    The movie was origionally supposed to be about Marcus, to be played by Christian Bale. He then decided he wanted to play John Connor, throwing a monkey wrench in the script which had to be rewritten to accomodate his "status".

    Overall it wasn't bad but far from what I expected.

    C+
     
  4. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Oliver, The Sarah Conner Chronicles is more like a total reboot to me,
    in an alternate-reality sort of way, so I guess the answer is the TV series
    and this movie aren't complementary at all, story-wise.

    Thanks...that just about dovetails with my main gripe:
    The production's indecisiveness on whether to focus on John Conner's
    non-story, or the script's natural center of gravity, Marcus.
    I guess Bale didn't want just a one-off role in the franchise.

    You're far more generous than I am, heheh.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
  5. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

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    I enjoyed it for the mindless roller coaster ride, but there were many plot holes like you pointed out.

    If they did write it so the Marcus character was a mystery, the media would have spoiled it before we got to the theaters anyway. Think about T2? It was written in such away that you didn't know Arnie was a good-T. You wouldn't have known until the first confrontation in the hallway. That would have been much more suspenseful!! However, all the reviewers made sure it was public before it opened.
     
  6. Allegra

    Allegra

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    were the machines killing all the ugly women and the goodlooking guys?
     
  7. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    A little frustrated over goodlooking guys, Allegra?
    :aodnsb:
    :tongueout:
     
  8. Allegra

    Allegra

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    Syempre naman
    Sino pa ba magtutulungan kundi mga kapwa pogi
     
  9. Clusterbomb

    Clusterbomb

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    I suddenly remembered that T3 produced a time travel paradox. Remember the scene in the mobile camper (Winnebago ba yun?) where Arnold revealed how John Connor would die in the future? "I killed you." And he goes on to explain that he was able to win John's trust because of his emotional attachment to the T800 in T2.

    If John Connor knew right then and there how he would be killed, wouldn't it be logical for him to destroy all T800s he would meet in the future? Better yet, wouldn't it be tempting for John to destroy Arnold right there para di na sila magkita in the future? But I don't know how the rest of T3 would play out kung ganun ginawa nya.

    So if T4 would have sequels, would they still kill off John as Arnold said in T3? Ang gulo!
     
  10. blownhemi

    blownhemi

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    Arnie's model was T101, not T800 as used in the most recent movie. I swear the producers or script writers didn't even go back and watch the first two movies. I actually enjoyed T3 better than T4.
     
  11. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    If they did, it sure didn't show up on the big screen.

    The more I think about the mess that T4 is, the closer
    I come to agreeing with you.

    h.
     
  12. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    As blownhemi pointed out, Arnold was a T101.
    Anyway, John would be better served simply knowing in advance,
    and not trusting T101's completely. If he offed the entire stock of
    T101's, he'd just be creating uncertainty: Skynet would then try to
    get to him some other, unknown way.

    That would eliminate just one T101, and almost certainly not
    the one that might come after him "in the future".

    Ugh... more sequels...

    :)
    h.
     
  13. Clusterbomb

    Clusterbomb

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    I read it somewhere that Arnie was a "T800-Model 101" in T2, much better than the one in T1 (because of the real human skin & flesh that healed?). I don't know kung yung Terminator model or variant ni Arnie sa T3 is even better than the one in T2 (because of the double fuel cells?). Parang celfone, 'no? Madali ring ma-obsolete.

    Sa akin OK na yung T1 & T2. Tight pa yung meshing nung dalawang istorya. But last Saturday I came out of the cinema confused and disappointed with T4.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  14. blownhemi

    blownhemi

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    You're just making that up. :)
     
  15. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    Nah... my own memory cells are fried after sitting through T4.
     
  16. Allegra

    Allegra

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    BOGs please lang , paki schedule na ang next gimik
    A few of our members need a life yata heehee

    Biro lang braders
    Anong model ba ni Marcus? Shoot na sa balde hindi pa naka score
    Dapat ireformat yun
     
  17. darwin25

    darwin25 Make your move

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    ok Horge, don't say "I told you so"

    I gave in to the urge. I've seen the movie and the story is really bad. And I thought Christian Bale acting up during the shoot is bad enough. The movie is really bad.
     
  18. horge

    horge -=-=-=-=- Lifetime Member

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    D,
    You couldn't help watching that trainwreck,
    and so now, I can't help saying it.

    "I told you so".
    :tongueout:
     
  19. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

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    horge: you saw Pelham 123 already? ang galing talaga gumawa ng istorya ng mga american screenwriters! the whole movie kept you glued to your seats just listening to the tirades of travolta and denzel in 2 very simple set designs! the subway car and the control center! 2 thumbs up!

    pero there was a booboo moment when they showed a close-up of the walther ppk the police lieutenant gave to garber and in the next scenes, garber pulled out a kahr from the bag
     
  20. jasonub

    jasonub

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    transformers the movie?:upeyes: