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Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by Mister X, Oct 4, 2012.
Makes me glad I've got mine already- none of which were made any earlier than '06.
Check out this thread: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1412005
A short Glock history lesson.
Glock used to make all kinds of products.
When Austria wanted a new army handgun, Gaston Glock decided to get into the gun business. Apparently there wasn't that much money in shower curtain rings and tampon applicators.
The first model pistol was called the model 1. It didn't work.
Models 2-16 had problems but model 17 was perfection.
Then came the other models.
Now, to address the question about finish:
The first finish process Glock used on the model 1 was called Ifer finish but it did not work well and he could see it needed improvement. He called the first process Oneifer.
Changing basic chemicals, he tried it again with Twoifer.
Perfection occurred with his tenth try when he used good old fashioned sugar as the active ingredient, He named it Tenifer.
When Glock opened his plant in the USA the Federal Government (the FDA) would not allow him to use the main active ingredient (sugar) in the process. After several years he finally reached Glock perfection once again by using Splenda in the process. It is now called Elevenifer. Nitride for short.
Don't even ask me how I know this, but Gaston's Mom vacations in Wythe County a couple times a year and I take her catfishing on Claytor Lake.
I had already seen that thread, but found nothing real definitive. I even emailed the source(lynn freshly) listed on page two about where he got his info and he stated ...
"The information came from my boss at Glock Professional. It is my understanding now that 2007 was the start of the switch from Tennifer to Nitration."
Another Glock Inc.CS rep told me today that a total across the board of all calibers switch from Tenifer to the new process took place in mid 2011. I guess it's possible and/or likely there was earlier use of the new process, but I can't imagine it really being before 2010.He also said my July 2009 G26 with the Black Slide and Grey barrel would have Tenifer under both finishes.
Some may think this topic is redundant, useless or flat out annoying, but the Tenifer and it's performance history was a big selling point for me.The newer metal treatment although very similar and/or in the same general classification as Tenifer just doesn't seem like it's performing as well based on what I'm reading on various forums. I'm not sure if it's possible to get the real answer of when the switch was made or if/ how many early models where sent out with the newer metal treatment short getting the information from records directly from Austria.
I will personally stick to buying older Glocks(pre-2010)for now to be on the safe side.
This is just me but I prefer even earlier than that,pre 2007 to avoid other cost cutting,performance measures taken by Glock. YMMV SJ 40
the answer is no, the new treatment is not anywhere near as rust resistent. ive never rusted a tennifer glock. and within a month the new grey slide i bought with a march '12 test fire had specs of rust on it. i sent it to CCR and i havent had a problem since. the new finish is junk compared to the old one.
Dare I say that this topic should be a sticky already....
When do people realize that Tenifer is not the finish on Glock slides!
And that Tenifer is with 1 "N" !
I found some interesting reading material on finishing.com
Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Please see
www.hefusa.com and www.trutecind.com.
gov't - Springfield, Ohio
Remember that Tenifer is not a Glock-only thing....and that it is very important how the process (Tenifer) is applied to material....wether it's a slide or a crankshaft.
Because Tenifer is not a Glock-only-thing, I doubt that they can mention the Tenifer being applied to Glock pistols on their website when they don't.....
I think Herr Tenifer won't be happy with that....
So I think they still use the Tenifer process, regardless what Glock CS reps say......or people at Armorers Courses.....I think that they only tell you things that they have heard from others they have heard it from others etc etc.....but no one really knows.
The link: http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml
My good friend is a Surefire military Rep who deals with Glock on a regular basis. This is what he told me over the past 4th of July weekend. He said the folks at Glock find it humorous all the BS they read on the forums from the supposed experts!
I've had mid and late 90's G17's and G34's who's finish didn't hold up to heavy holster use as well as a few of my more recent samples.
So maybe they like spreading disinformation to see just how far it goes?
Hafta say, that'd make for an interesting weekend on the 'net, not to mention a really interesting office betting pool.
any reason why glock wont settle the matter by stating what is and what is not?
One thing I've learned is that about only half of what Glock inc. CS reps or any gun manufacturers CS for that matter tells you is correct. I learned that the hard way after making some purchases of guns that were not what customer service said they were.
You pose just about any somewhat difficult to answer question to 10 different sales reps at Glock Inc. and your likely to get 10 different answers. I had read on the internet (right here at Glock Talk)a couple of years ago that Glock was using a grey finish on all new production guns(both Gen 3 & 4) as well as the dipped extractor and I wanted neither. I called Glock Inc. and the CS rep assured me said that the grey finish was only on the Gen 4 models and that the Gen 3's were still the same with the slick black finish and old style extractor and would remain unchanged.I told him about the posts at Glocktalk and he dismissed it as internet rumors.
Based on that info, I ordered a new Gen 3 G17 from my dealer and when it arrived it had the grey finish. I rejected it and my dealer sent it back and from now on I double and triple check with customer service as well as hit the forums before ordering anything.
You call up S&W customer service and ask about Internal Lock failures and they'll tell you it's internet myth even though it's been confirmed to happen by Massad Ayoob,Grant Cunnigham and David Kenik to name a few who recommend avoiding it on a defense gun. Are those men buying into and spreading internet rumors? Most CSreos will just tell you want they want you to hear to make you buy their products. Buyer beware indeed.
Glock corporate likes to deride boards like this because they claim that the information is partially true.
The problem they continually face is that real world users are wringing out real world problems with their perfection. Glock had a history of quietly resolving problems before they became public. Then the internet flowered and boards such as this grew so that real users could post consistent issues they saw with the pistols. Corporate derides what is posted yet they are fearful of what we find, develop, and share. The reality is that in the years I have been going to armorer schools, the factory reps while smile and chuckle when someone mentions something they read on the internet. But that smile quickly fades when the end users agree it's an issue (Gen 3 light rail and cycling, G21 trigger bars, Gen 4 finish, Gen 4 RSAs, broken locking block pins, etc.).
If Glock were to grow up as a business entity, they would recognize that real world testing and data is posted here and "experiences," as a collection, speak to their line more than any CS or rep can ever hope for.
I enjoy Glock pistols like so many but I certainly won't dismiss something a poster writes when it is a legitimate problem, such as the quality in the "tennifer" processes.
I think they are afraid someone will lick the slide and get cyanide poisoning. I think I heard that somewhere.
Sure, I get it. I just thought that the mental image of a bunch of Glock employees getting together to dream up the next "issue" and then draw up an office pool on it was kind of funny.
Makes me glad I've gotten the few that I wanted (all prior to 2008) before this iceberg broke loose.
Bustedknee - you, sir, are disturbed!! I'll be saving that!
I, too, become concerned whenever Glock changes anything in their design, because almost every design change has caused a problem that required a subsequent correction. I can't help but believe that there are certain "known-good" serial number ranges for Glock pistols. I try to confine my purchases to older guns within certain S/N ranges. None of them came after the "shiny" slide finish characterized by "Fxx" through "Lxx". I avoid anything in the "Exx" range due to the possibility of the frame requiring an "upgrade".
We DO know one thing for certain. During one very significant period of time in Glock history (i.e. 1991 - 2010), almost no-one complained about Glock's metal finish. It became the standard against which all service weapon finishes were compared. It contributed to the sale of A LOT of guns to police agencies, and resulted in guns so durable that they could actually be refurbished and sold again through the "factory refurbished" program. Now, by contrast, we are starting to see and hear complaints about Glock slides developing spot rust. So, we can conclude that SOMETHING has changed. And, not for the better.
Corrosion resistance is part of the "simplicity" equation that made Glock#1. If they lose that advantage, S&W now (finally) has a competitive product that could put a serious dent in Glock's market (notice I said "competitive", not superior). Glock needs to not mess with their own "perfection".
I have had rust on my G19 made in Oct 2011. I have always used hot water when cleaning and noticed some rust on the slide in the extractor groove. The extractor was rusted as well. I have always used the same process for cleaning my Glocks, and this is the only one that has rusted. The finish is the dull color compared to all of my other Glocks. I live in a very dry climate and have never had to worry about rust.
+1 to this Ridder. As mentioned previously, HEF USA distributes the ferritic nitrocarburizing salt, additive and oxidizing salt for the Melonite process we use. Tenifer is the European equivalent to the Melonite process. The EPA regulates the discharge of free cyanide into the environment. The Melonite process, when operated correctly, destroys free cyanide in the oxidizing bath before the parts are washed in water to remove salt residue.
Glock discontinued the Tenifer® heat treatment mid 2011, and is now using a gas nitriding process. Same end result using a different process. Unfortunately, we don’t have an answer for you as to whether it was a gradual phase out but we are assuming it was done at the same time.
I then asked a follow up question to that email and got the following answer...
The Tenifer® heat treating process ended sometime in 2009, but the slide finish had no bearing on which process had been done.
FAX 770 437-4701
I have 3 Gen III Glocks, all dated 2005 or 2006 production. Excuse my ignorance, but does the alleged cyanide hazard apply only to the manufcturing process or does it also posit an emission hazard while shooting or even handling the gun?