close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Technological advances to combat guerrila warfare?

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by emt1581, Apr 15, 2012.


  1. emt1581

    emt1581
    Expand Collapse
    Curious Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    19,885
    2
    Location:
    Penn's Woods
    Seems like technology is what divides sides of conflicts in some situations. The wealthier side uses technology to monitor, locate, and destroy the enemy while the poorer side has less capability, even when grouped together, so they resort to guerrilla-like tactics with simpler/cheaper equipment which can be almost or just as effective.

    What equipment is out there that does an excellent job of going on the offensive or defending against guerrilla fighters? Or is technology difficult to develop because we're talking about a human individual that runs around the terrain with an AK/AR and/or sets traps?...Rather than driving a tank and wearing a uniform in large groups.

    For those that are curious I'm thinking about that pesky "...enemies foreign and DOMESTIC" clause should it ever come to fruition. I'm thinking guerrilla warfare, on the part of the individual/citizen, is what would happen here...again.

    -Emt1581
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. bdcochran

    bdcochran
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    3,270
    310
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You want a discussion about equipment. Ok.

    The discussion is limited to individual equipment. You may compare what you can buy as a civilian and what was generally military issued in WW2, Korea and even Vietnam.

    1. Water purifiers/filters. Yeah, I know, most people don't know the difference between a filter and a purifier. They should look it up.
    2. Long term storage, portable foods.
    3. Night vision/flashlights. No, I do not have the money to buy Gen 2 and no matter what you read Gen 1 equipment is crap. However, the concept of light at night for a variety of functions gives a great advantage.
    4. Optics. Binoculars, range finders, and weapons scopes.
    5. Leatherman tools and Swiss Army knives with multiple functions.

    No folks, it isn't the usual discussion about 9mm vs. .45acp, Glock vs. Government .45, rural vs. urban. It is identification of specific areas of equipment where there has been a tremendous evolution. If you are deficient in those categories, you will have a problem.
     

  3. emt1581

    emt1581
    Expand Collapse
    Curious Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    19,885
    2
    Location:
    Penn's Woods
    This addresses the guerilla side of the question...but I was more curious about the "wealthier" side and what technology was created or does extremely well AGAINST the guerrilla fighter? Maybe some form of human RADAR?...Drones?...etc...

    Thanks

    -Emt1581
     
  4. expatman

    expatman
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    680
    6
    Location:
    Cape Coral, Fl. & Kampala, Uganda
    Keep in mind things such as:

    Gen. 4 night vision

    IR-Infrared

    FLIR-Forward Looking Infrared

    GSR-Ground Surveillance Radar (Don't know if this is still widely used but I have conducted dismounted infantry assaults against sites with GSR and it detected us in advance)

    Thermal Imagery

    Movement sensors (Used a lot on the Ho Chi Min trail. Very old tech by todays standards. Can be dropped by aircraft onto or near avenues of travel. No need for boots on the ground to employ. Not sure if it is still in use.)

    These are just some of the main threats to Guerrilla/resistance type fighters when going up against, as you put it, wealthier foes or as I would put it, the govt. or U.N. forces for those who dream up that scenario.

    There are others but those are from the top of my head.
     
    #4 expatman, Apr 15, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  5. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick
    Expand Collapse
    AAAMAD
    1. Glock Talk's Drunk Squad

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    17,260
    991
    Location:
    Alaska, again (for now)
    UAV's, thermal weapon sights, night vision weapon sights, radio's with the intrinsic ability to crack other peoples commercial (and therefore crappy) encryption. Air support, body armor, extensive training, armored vehicles, superior leadership.


    There will never be a guerrilla warfare in America, because unlike the places where you see it, we don't have any of the things that lead to a culture hard enough to do it.


    Americans would much rather sit at home and watch TV, and "occupy" a street corner than pick up a rifle, sling a little pack and go running through the woods to die. We're soft, we have alot of nicetys in our lives and every convenience is provided for us. You're not going to be able to find a large group thats willing to stand up and take huge losses that guerrilla forces commonly suffer when engaging a technologically superior forces.
     
  6. expatman

    expatman
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    680
    6
    Location:
    Cape Coral, Fl. & Kampala, Uganda
    Someone once brought up a very good point during a conversation with me. Went something like this......"For there to be a revolution (Guerrilla war) in America the participants would have to have ABSOLUTELY nothing left to lose. That would include no house, no ties be it family or friends not already a part of the revolution. No money, at least no bank account in their name. Things like these will all be lost as soon as the authorities discover the identity of those fighting.

    Just seemed like a very valid point to me. Maybe we will suffer from an insurgency of homeless people.
     
  7. Carry16

    Carry16
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    579
    1
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    If you're thinking of detection of individuals approaching your hideout - I would not ignore the old tried and true simple detection like trip wires, flares, tin cans, etc. Although not incorporated into my alarm system I have a very old radar detection device which basically allowed you to create an invisible umbrella radiating from a single point antenna. The size of the umbrella was adjustable as well as the trip threshold. You installed the antenna centrally in your house, preferrably high up in the attic, and anything that came into the umbrella range would trip the system. This could be dogs, people, blowing paper bags, etc. It was also possible to connect multiple antenna and set the system up to only cover the inside of your house.

    For my outside detection I use wireless PIR sensors by Optex. They do a great job of notifying me if someone approaches an entrance. I have a drive alarm as well, and several cctv cameras. Now in a SHTF scenario I would supplement this with trip wires, barbed wire, etc. Some of this may not be possible in an urban area I suppose, but can be very effective in a rural area. My wife has a patch of bamboo which would easily make 100,000 punji sticks.

    People with lots of money to spend surely have some more technically advanced devices available to them, but you can't beat a few dogs for early warning. :whistling:

    If you're ever set up cctv cameras or motion detectors you know how difficult it is to get wide area coverage. You can resort to IR beams I suppose but they are expensive, do not easily go around corners and would be prone to interference.

    Night vision and all the other stuff our soldiers use - requires solidiers, not just you and your wife, so I consider them secondary devices at best. They become more valuable if you have a platoon or so at your disposal.

    If there are any new tech items available to the public I would enjoy learning about them.

     
    #7 Carry16, Apr 15, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  8. bdcochran

    bdcochran
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    3,270
    310
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    In the early 1960s, I was shown a Naval Warfare problem that tracked developments in Vietnam. The question was what could be done to win. The honest answer was that when you had enough of the population in opposition, warfare would not win.

    You ask what should be done from the wealthier side. The context of this forum is not military, but survival. If you want military. read John Poole's books, research battles on youtube (which I have done. In the last week, the 1973 Syrian attack on the Golan Heights, the last Soviet attack on Berlin, and so forth).

    Look at the categories that I described. Look at your neighborhood. Do your fellow residents have the best functioning items in those categories? Do you? If you do and they don't, you will probably win.

    Survival starts with the individual, goes to the nuclear family, then the extended family and the neighbors.

    If you think that a wealthy person having a decent water purifier and/or water filter doesn't give you a significant advantage, then toss yours. Ditto to the flashlight with the lithium batteries, the solar powered motion detector, the scope on your rifle, the rangefinder and the nifty pair of binoculars.

    In reading last week, I learned that one of the reasons that the Israelis had been successful was that they had run an experiment of having a couple of units march from one end of Israel to the other in the month of August. The people who were constantly rehydrated were good to go at the end of the march. Now this seems obvious to you, right? Well, the Egyptians did not issue water to keep their troops hydrated. In fact, when I was in the US ARmy (1968-1969) I knew instinctively that "water discipline" was not an answer. STOP LOOKING FOR ANSWERS AT THE BACK OF THE BOOK AND THINK. Want to do well? Have a water bladder and an inline filter and a resupply of good water. If you have those items and the other side does not (guerrilla/policeman/militia/special forces/delta force operator or any other alphabet designation), you stand with an advantage.:faint:
     
    #8 bdcochran, Apr 15, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  9. racerford

    racerford
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    4,646
    238
    Location:
    DFW area
    Well IED seem to work reasonably well until the armor is better on the underside. However, in modern citties with concrete and asphalt roads IED may be less useful against vehicles. Shaped chages and napalm type substances may be effective.

    I think tech works well against tech. Modern NV and Thermal imaging systems work well against IR surveilance cameras, and guerilla active NV systems. Against those low tech may work well. Radio activated IEDs can be jammed, simple wires to a hand trigger, not so much.

    Trip wires versus IR lasers fo perimeters. How about trips that activate when cut versus when they are pulled? A mixture of open and closed circuit trips. Very long range shots, out beyond NV range. Or the good old fashion mole. You the cook that posions the food. Seduction and assassinantion. You fight the humans not the technology.

    Right now many computer security breachs are the results of social engineering or understanding the psychology and laziness of people. The best technology can be thrated by humans that use it.
     
  10. Akita

    Akita
    Expand Collapse
    gone

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    2,025
    1
    Pet Peeve: There is no such thing as 'gen 4' night vision. Anyone trying to sell you some is a crook.

    The US MILITARY, and the US MILITARY ONLY, designates the generations of night vision and they say gen3 is as high as it gets. Yes, theres different types of night vision gen 3's with pros and cons of each, but there is no gen 4.
     
  11. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick
    Expand Collapse
    AAAMAD
    1. Glock Talk's Drunk Squad

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    17,260
    991
    Location:
    Alaska, again (for now)

    Honestly, IED's aren't that effective. For every 1 that kills or damages a vehicle, there are dozens that do not. We're pretty good about learning.

    Secondly, in America there isn't the kind of explosives and quantities available to the public like in A-stan/Iraq/elsewhere in the world.
     
  12. racerford

    racerford
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2003
    4,646
    238
    Location:
    DFW area
    Fair enough on the IEDs.

    On the availability of explosives, I am not so sure it would stay this way, if it came to the time where civilians were acting against military units on US soil. I saw an article on some military types that were picked up because an anti-tank rocket ended up at one of their homes. I understand C4 goes missing on a regular basis. Also seriously messed up meth head seem to be able to cook up meth with no problem.

    Many explosive are relatively simple to make, even the high explosives. Some are dangerous to make due to their instability especially in their making. I have known conceptually how to make nitro-glycerin, nitrocellulose, TNT since I was in high school. I never attempted due to a desire to stay out of jail, and keep my appendages. I am funny like that. As I recall an IED took down half of a large building in Oklahoma City.

    You are right, the vast majority of American would NEVER resort to guerilla warfare. IIRC the vast majority of American were not involved/committed to the Revolutionary War. The problem comes when enough of the population feels like they do not have much to loose. It really doesn't take a lot 3-10% would probably be enough. As long as the vast majority of the population is apathetic, or at least to lazy/fearful to get invole, that should be enough. I think in the US I think you would find vast majority do fit in those categories.

    I do think you are right we are unlikely to see IED used used to any large extent in the US to "save" the country, and are still more like to see them used by terror elements against civilians to try to destroy America.

    You are right high tech does really hamper the effectiveness of guerilla warfare. However old fashoned deception and subteruge are still very effective against the weakest link.
     
  13. RedHaze

    RedHaze
    Expand Collapse
    Handgunner

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    2,397
    8
    Location:
    SE WA
    [​IMG]

    They'd certainly lock down chemical supplies. Because with all the wealth of information out there, it's just as easy to "cook" high explosives as it is to "cook" methamphetamine.

    For instance, R.D.X. is way simple to make if you have a little more than a basic understanding of what you're doing. Combine that with ANFO, and wammy.
     
  14. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot
    Expand Collapse
    OIF 04-05

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    4,272
    80
    Location:
    Nowhereville, USA
    Technology does always mean a win. Determination and tactics could win the fight, especially when you go in and occupy someones country when you shouldn't.
     
  15. Texas357

    Texas357
    Expand Collapse
    Señor Member
    CLM

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    7,908
    2
    Location:
    CCTX
    Our agriculture is very fertilizer-dependent. Locking down every buk nitrate source is no simple task.

    And while you are guarding the fertilizer, who is securing the fuel? Organized disruption of fuel and electricity would turn most American cities into scary places.
     
  16. NecoDude

    NecoDude
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    201
    1
    Location:
    No Name City...
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    #16 NecoDude, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  17. emt1581

    emt1581
    Expand Collapse
    Curious Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    19,885
    2
    Location:
    Penn's Woods
    All that I see is a black box.

    -Emt1581
     
  18. G26man

    G26man
    Expand Collapse
    OBEY ME!

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    1,902
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Our government (i.e. Military) has now had almost 10 years experience in actively quelling grassroots insurgencies. Improving tactics, designing and fielding specialized equipment, refining and redesigning tactics and equipment, etc. We're damn good at it now. Best in the world. Just keep that in mind. Any forcible resistance to the sitting government in this country (if that is what you were alluding to) would likely require a large defection of the government forces to have a snowball in hell's chance of success IMHO.
     
    #18 G26man, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  19. RedHaze

    RedHaze
    Expand Collapse
    Handgunner

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    2,397
    8
    Location:
    SE WA
    I wasn't eluding to locking down the fertilizer and fuel. Because ANFO by itself isn't all that useful. I was talking about the kind of chemicals needed to "cook" high explosives like R.D.X. which would be used as the detonator for an ANFO based IED.
     
  20. grasshoppa

    grasshoppa
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    80
    0
    Don't assume that the military the guerrillas are fighting domestically will be the same motivated military we have overseas. I bet command and control would be an isse.
     
    #20 grasshoppa, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012