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Taunton police take delivery of new .45-caliber handguns...

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by kayl, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. kayl


    Nov 14, 2004
    SE WI

    Great to see a dept. get new, standardized guns, but this article is full of a TON of bad info!

  2. blueiron


    Aug 10, 2004
    Nice to see that hardly anything changes.

    In 1985, we were told by a councilman that he would never approve .45ACP sidearms because he shot one while in the Army at Fort Dix and they couldn't hit a barn at 25 yards.

    I so badly wanted to yell out 'Operator Error!'

  3. Not to side track this thread, but I underwent my academy training at Fort Dix. That place is brutally hot in the spring and summer months, and gets arctic cold in the winter.

    We still do rifle quals down there from time to time.
  4. RetailNinja


    Jan 31, 2007
    I love my TRS, and my Glock 21, but how is a 9mm 'inherently' less accurate? Just posturing for media?
  5. car541

    car541 Patrol Hairbag

    Aug 20, 2004
    It is probably posturing for the media, but in general, 9mm parabellum cartidges have histrically been considered to be less inherently accurate due to the slight taper of the 9mm para casing. If the chamber headspace of a 9mm is not well matched to the cartridge casing length, the sides of the casing can actually become quite loose in the chamber (when compared to a straight walled case).

    For practical purposes in a police service weapon, it is meaningless, and the taper has some positive qualities as far as the functioning of the weapon, but from a purely academic point of view, the statement is not actually false.
  6. kayl


    Nov 14, 2004
    SE WI
    Interesting, thanks for the info- I did not know that.

    I recall reading an article about the Army's pistol marksmanship team switching to 9mm Berettas from .45 1911s and the resultant reduction in group size, but that may have had more to do with the bullet size than inherent accuracy.
  7. car541

    car541 Patrol Hairbag

    Aug 20, 2004
    I will assume that was the old American Rifleman Article where they reamed out the front of the slides and added a matched tapered bushing to the front of the barrel? As I remember it there were also some set screws in the frame to freeze the rear barrel geometry.

    I always believed that USAMU switched to berettas to match their competition weapons to the service issue weapons, which makes sense given that they are really there to promote marksmanship within the Army (as well as serve as a recruitment tool)
  8. blueiron


    Aug 10, 2004
    The 9x19mm cartridge can be very accurate. Find and shoot a SiG P-210-5. They are incredibly accurate in ISU 50 meter matches.

    It all depends on the quality of manufacture of the ammo/weapon and the ability of the shooter.

    I suspect that the councilperson fool making that claim was of the school of thought that believes more rounds available in a basic weapon load out will lead to 'spray and pray' shooting techniques.

    Hopefully, the officers at the PD will enjoy their new pistols. It can be either Christmas or a curse, depending on what is bought and if the officers had any input.
  9. The-Fly

    The-Fly The Bofh

    Apr 27, 2005
    What a ******.



  10. OLY-M4gery


    Nov 7, 2001
    Southern WI
    Taunton has 115 officers? :wow:
  11. Well if they think this is going to be a fix for improving qualification scores they are mistaken.

    Anyhoo, as long as the guys/gals are happy with their new guns that's all that matters. I wonder which .45 load they are running?
  12. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    The only thing about the 9mm that can be a little bad is the fact that they are a lighter bullet. They go further in flight. But, they are not less accurate.
  13. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    Soooo, he agrees with commonality... unless it's not of his choosing?
  14. unit 900

    unit 900

    Sep 3, 2000
    Baltimore, Md
    Despite some misinformation in the article, it seems that the Chief did his homework before making a decision. Whether he is right or wrong by someone else's lights, his due diligence is not the norm in the police world, and should be acknowledged.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  15. Many departments are making the switch to 9mm pistols because they are easier for the average cop to shoot. It seems strange to switch to .45.
  16. blueiron


    Aug 10, 2004

    They are switching because of two primary reasons - one, because 9mm ammo is cheaper to buy per unit and two, because it allows insufficiently live fire trained officers to maintain their scores and certifications when range training is cut to the minimums.

    The first reason is a valid one, but there is no viable reason to cut firearms range time on the admin bet that officers are not likely to be involved in a lethal use of force incident over a given period of time.

    If an officer/deputy/trooper wants a 9mm - fine, as long as quality ammo is used, but going to easier to shoot weapons because of training and range cutbacks borders on the criminal. Cut out the "executive retreats", the out of state admin training, take home vehicles for people not on call, etc.

    Some chiefs actually are gun people and understand what it takes for the street cop to do their job. An easier to shoot weapon does not make an officer more effective. If they did, we'd all be carrying Walther OSP .22 Short rapid fire target pistols.
  17. MAGlock

    MAGlock CLM

    Nov 20, 2005
    Titusville, FL
    I suspect that because the Mass State Police are switching the the M&P 45 it might have had something to do with it also.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  18. MSP is switching too? Well now, that is interesting . . . .
  19. Japle

    Japle John, Viera, Fl

    Feb 26, 2000
    Viera, Florida
    This has never happened.
  20. blueiron


    Aug 10, 2004

    In my entire career in LE, I never encountered a Banzai charge by either criminal litters or mass murderers.

    This argument is the biggest strawman argument in firearms selection by administrators. There are valid arguments to be made for standardized weapons by an agency, but the "Tarawa/Chosin/Khe Sanh" scenario is not one of them.