Out of curiousity, how many folks use only Irons sights with no optics and why? Show your setup if possible.
Well, using irons and using optics are two different things to master. You could choose to master one, the other, or both.I believe that rifle shooters should master shooting with iron sights first, and then move on to an optic. Learning with irons first forces a shooter to habitually get a good cheek weld as the rifle comes up and that will make them faster and more consistent when the begin to use an optic. Using an optic first, especially a RDS, allows a shooter to be inconsistent with their cheek weld and it is easier to train a consistent cheek weld from the beginning than to develop consistency once slop has been habituated.
I agree. Especially in low light.THat said, I have a lot of trouble believing anybody who's ever had to do it for real would say irons over optics.
There aren't a lot of good sight alignment/picture shots taking place when somebody is shooting back. Putting a gun at an awkward angle that still lets you stay behind cover and pull a trigger is a hell of a lot better an idea than properly shooting wtih irons.
Well, using irons and using optics are two different things to master. You could choose to master one, the other, or both.
I'm not interested in using irons, spending the time and money mastering them, but that's just me.
Remember in a tactical situation you had best master the iron sights first because if the optics fail then your screwed.Well, using irons and using optics are two different things to master. You could choose to master one, the other, or both.
I'm not interested in using irons, spending the time and money mastering them, but that's just me.
See the above.I always have electronic sights, either Aimpoint, or EOTech, on my work ARs, but just iron sights on my fun ARs (I don't have lights, or slings, on the fun ones, either).
Or, you could choose to address this from the opposite direction, if we're going to focus on HD/SD and what people choose to practice with when they go to the range.Most rifle shooters will shoot a RDS better if they master shooting with iron sights first. The fundamentals of rifle marksmanship are the same for both irons and optics. Irons are less forgiving so they require more consistency and focus to shoot well. The consistency and focus irons help shooters develop make the advantages of RDS and optics easier to maximize.
Take cheek weld for example. With irons, a consistent chekweld is essential while with a RDS head position has broad parameters. Putting your head in the same psoition makes putting the dot on target very natural and easy. While varying head position complicates finding the dot on the target. When fractions of a second count, simplicity reigns supreme.
:rofl::rofl:Remember in a tactical situation you had best master the iron sights first because if the optics fail then your screwed.
What experience brings you to this conclusion?Cheek weld means nothing for using an RDS at close ranges for HD/SD, where speed is king. So, don't bother wasting time and money with irons, focus on training with the RDS you would actually use.
Hell, the uber competetive AR gaming shooters don't even seem to use any cheek weld at all.
Did he say combat or tactical situation?:rofl::rofl:
This isn't combat.
At worst we're talking about HD/SD, where a very babied, safe queen of an AR will be used. No need to worry about RDSs failing.
Are there stats available concerning quality optics such as the T1/H1 and failure? That would be a good read.I like iron sights on an AR. RDS and optics are an advantage in certian situations, but most shooters use them as a crutch. Optics malfunction. (ETA: Batteries die, glass cracks, fog, moisture, zero shift, broken mount, etc.) It's a fact. Irons rarely do. Better to master the constant, than to rely on the variable.
You can research it yourself. If you find anything, be sure to post here.Are there stats available concerning quality optics such as the T1/H1 and failure? That would be a good read.
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Exactly what I was expecting.You can research it yourself. If you find anything, be sure to post here.
How much experience do you have with an Aimpoint or Eotech optic? You seem to be relaying concerns that aren't that realistic.I like iron sights on an AR. RDS and optics are an advantage in certian situations, but most shooters use them as a crutch. Optics malfunction. (ETA: Batteries die, glass cracks, fog, moisture, zero shift, broken mount, etc.) It's a fact. Irons rarely do. Better to master the constant, than to rely on the variable.
What exactly were you expecting. You wanted info on a certian optic? You do the research. My statement referred to optics in general. Unless you can prove optics do not malfunction, then your response to my statement was pointless, or you were attempting to start an arguement.Exactly what I was expecting.
What situations are optics not ideal?
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I asked you for some supporting evidence to your statement. It was a general question. I supplied a specific optic hoping it might make your job of finding supporting evidence. I expected that you had none and I was correct.What exactly were you expecting. You wanted info on a certian optic? You do the research. My statement referred to optics in general. Unless you can prove optics do not malfunction, then your response to my statement was pointless, or you were attempting to start an arguement.
And where did I say optics weren't ideal? I did say in certian situations they were an advantage. Speed is not always better. Precision in most cases is.
What if you, say, use a flip up BUIS with an absolute co-witness to your RDS, and train with the sites up, only viewing the dot through the sites?Most rifle shooters will shoot a RDS better if they master shooting with iron sights first. The fundamentals of rifle marksmanship are the same for both irons and optics. Irons are less forgiving so they require more consistency and focus to shoot well. The consistency and focus irons help shooters develop make the advantages of RDS and optics easier to maximize.
Take cheek weld for example. With irons, a consistent chekweld is essential while with a RDS head position has broad parameters. Putting your head in the same psoition makes putting the dot on target very natural and easy. While varying head position complicates finding the dot on the target. When fractions of a second count, simplicity reigns supreme.
Very true. At close range, you can even point and hit with a long arm.:rofl::rofl:
This isn't combat.
At worst we're talking about HD/SD, where a very babied, safe queen of an AR will be used. No need to worry about RDSs failing.
You might baby your safe queen HD gun, but plenty of others do not.:
At worst we're talking about HD/SD, where a very babied, safe queen of an AR will be used.