Out of curiousity, how many folks use only Irons sights with no optics and why? Show your setup if possible.
Thanks.ak130k that is a nice setup!
My primary rifle is a Colt LE6920 with the standard carry handle irons. I have noting against optics and I understand all the arguments in favor of red dot's and optics as a whole.
I've been down the red dot road and I don't care for them. I find I can be just as fast with iron sights as I can with the red dot.
What about low light you ask? That's what a weapon mounted light is for. At the most, they make tritium sights for the AR if one feels the need for them. (I don't as long as I have a light attached to the gun.)
For me anymore, magnified optics are for my precision rifles and red dot's are a novelty in my opinion. I know a lot of you guys like the red dot's and if they work for you great! I don't like them.
With no magnification they don't offer me anything that the iron sights don't already do for me. They take up space and rely on batteries. I've heard all the arguments about how, "Fast" the red dot is. I just don't see it and I haven't noticed any difference in my shot to shot times or time on target to first shot fired between red dot's and irons.
Sorry!
Red Dot sights?
No thank you.
I'm able to reliably use my iron sights (on a regular basis at that) out to 400 meters and reliably hit a man size target and keep almost all of them on the paper.
I don't see how that's a bad thing and I don't see a red dot allowing me to do it any better than that.
A magnified optic will allow me to group tighter at that distance and have a higher hit rate but it takes up space, increases weight not to mention the greater possibility of something going wrong with my primary sight. Let's face it, no optic is as rugged as iron sights.
My iron sights get me from point blank to 600 meters. (Don't ask me about my hit rate at 600m :crying But on that note, how often will a civilian or even a law enforcement officer be called upon to engage a target at 600 meters with either a red dot or iron sights.
Probably never.
As far as I'm concerned, a defensive rifle should be kept as simple as possible. For me, it's iron sights and a weapon mounted light. That combo hasn't failed me yet and I've used this carbine in several classes with great success. (Much to the dismay of the instructors that insisted that I have a red dot or some kind of optic.) :supergrin:
Iron sights for me please!
:wavey:
Hey, if you dont like them, you dont like them, thats cool. At least we have a choice.I've been down the red dot road and I don't care for them. I find I can be just as fast with iron sights as I can with the red dot.
Lights are great, and I have them on a couple of guns, but they suffer the same issue as the dots, batteries, and they are usually much shorter lived in that respect. They also can be even more fragile than the dots when it comes to getting knocked around, and in some cases, even just shot.What about low light you ask? That's what a weapon mounted light is for. At the most, they make tritium sights for the AR if one feels the need for them. (I don't as long as I have a light attached to the gun.)
Yup, me too, for the most part. The lower power scopes do work up close, but are still behind the curve compared to dots and some irons when it comes to speed.For me anymore, magnified optics are for my precision rifles
I noticed the difference right away, and still do. I still shoot a lot of iron sighted guns, most of which these days, isnt High Power type "target" shooting, but more reactive type shooting. I can snap shoot targets much quicker and accurately with the dots, even at, and past 100 yards.With no magnification they don't offer me anything that the iron sights don't already do for me. They take up space and rely on batteries. I've heard all the arguments about how, "Fast" the red dot is. I just don't see it and I haven't noticed any difference in my shot to shot times or time on target to first shot fired between red dot's and irons.
Well, maybe. So far, I have yet to break any of my Aimpoints (or even knock them out of zero), but I have broken a few iron sights over the years, and some clean off the gun. They can break from impacts, just like the optics. Some are better than others, but they are not totally fool proof.Let's face it, no optic is as rugged as iron sights.
This is something I find is usually "target thinking" related more than anything else when it gets brought up. More often than not, its the .30 caliber MBR crowd thats really hot on it too. If you want something a little more realistic, take the top off an IPSC type target a couple of inches down from the shoulders, and put it on the ground somewhere at 600 yards/meters, and see if the shooter can even find it, let alone hit it. 36" bullseyes and erect black/dark green on white silhouettes dont really equate to realistic shooting.My iron sights get me from point blank to 600 meters. (Don't ask me about my hit rate at 600m ) But on that note, how often will a civilian or even a law enforcement officer be called upon to engage a target at 600 meters with either a red dot or iron sights.
I agree with you here, but with advances in todays gear, things tend to favor the combat proven optics over the irons. Not that the irons arent there too, they are, but just as a back up, should they be needed. Still, you should know how to shoot with them, and practice with them on a regular basis as well.As far as I'm concerned, a defensive rifle should be kept as simple as possible.
And youre making the right choice in doing so. As with anything, you should learn to do it "long hand" so you know how to do it when technology fails (when was the last time you did a long division problem on paper with just a pencil and your brain? ), or you need to pick up something thats not yours, and put it to work.Being a newbie to black rifles, I'm learning iron sights first.
Im in the same boat. I think once most of the approaching older crowd actually shoot them, especially away from a bench, they will find it hard to not move on.I would agree with all of this when I was younger but as I get older my eyes just don't react as quick to iron sights as red dot sights.
might be right, but I don't consider any long gun I own to be defensive. I look at them as combat rifles.As far as I'm concerned, a defensive rifle should be kept as simple as possible.
So if someone shoots at you, you're going to use a pistol to shoot back?might be right, but I don't consider any long gun I own to be defensive. I look at them as combat rifles.
Yup, I sure am because I'm not going to carry a rifle around wtih me. When I did, if somebody shot at you, you still didn't play defense. You found them and killed them.So if someone shoots at you, you're going to use a pistol to shoot back?
Any weapon can be a defensive tool.
not at all. Of course I seem to have a big issue understanding people calling anything defensive. Anytime you're shooting at somebody it's not defense. It's offense, you're trying to kill them.He has a point snaps. Your long guns serve dual purposes combat assult and defense.
But why are you shooting at them? Because they shot at you. Correct? True. As a civilian all legal shootings are defensive. Military as well. We are defending a nation against those that would bring violence against us yet again. Sometimes it's proactive, others it's reactive, but always defensive.not at all. Of course I seem to have a big issue understanding people calling anything defensive. Anytime you're shooting at somebody it's not defense. It's offense, you're trying to kill them.
Defense would be more suppressive fire.
No defensive is why you are shooting at them in the first place to defend yourself.Yup, I sure am because I'm not going to carry a rifle around wtih me. When I did, if somebody shot at you, you still didn't play defense. You found them and killed them.
not at all. Of course I seem to have a big issue understanding people calling anything defensive. Anytime you're shooting at somebody it's not defense. It's offense, you're trying to kill them.
Defense would be more suppressive fire.
Sounds like the guy doesn't shoot other than quals. His lack of familiarization is more at fault than anything.Qualification last month, one guy forgot to turn on his EoTech and missed a string of fire. Tkaes him for ever to turn it on. His iron sights skills suck, because he is so dependant on the EoTech.
Irons for me. Only attachmant is a light.
+1. I really like irons, growing up shooting billions of pellets out of my iron site pellet guns they are a comfort zone. Once someone "knows" their rifle with the irons that person can make incredible shots with it. That being said optics can take someone to a whole new level with speed precision if need be. I am still getting used to my optic but I love it.In good light with unlimited time, I shoot better with irons. In the real world, I shoot better with an optic. Several of our trainer rifles will use irons forever.
That guy sucks, its not the optics fault. It takes him forever to turn it on? Turn it on on the way to the range. Turn it on when you pull it out of the cage or trunk. Tell that guy to get a job in evidence or records.Qualification last month, one guy forgot to turn on his EoTech and missed a string of fire. Tkaes him for ever to turn it on. His iron sights skills suck, because he is so dependant on the EoTech.
Irons for me. Only attachmant is a light.
That's not the equipment. That's a training issue.Qualification last month, one guy forgot to turn on his EoTech and missed a string of fire. Tkaes him for ever to turn it on. His iron sights skills suck, because he is so dependant on the EoTech.
Irons for me. Only attachmant is a light.
Qualification last month, one guy forgot to turn on his EoTech and missed a string of fire. Tkaes him for ever to turn it on. His iron sights skills suck, because he is so dependant on the EoTech.
Irons for me. Only attachmant is a light.
I believe that rifle shooters should master shooting with iron sights first, and then move on to an optic. Learning with irons first forces a shooter to habitually get a good cheek weld as the rifle comes up and that will make them faster and more consistent when the begin to use an optic. Using an optic first, especially a RDS, allows a shooter to be inconsistent with their cheek weld and it is easier to train a consistent cheek weld from the beginning than to develop consistency once slop has been habituated.That is part of the problem when people get so dependent on their optic they never train with their irons.