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Survey: Iron sights

Discussion in 'Black Rifle Forum' started by TangoFoxtrot, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Matthew Courtney

    Matthew Courtney Instructor #298

    3,644
    4
    Oct 14, 2002
    Lake Charles

    Those are good targets, Phil. I use a globe front sight sized so that I can barely see a little bit of light all the way around the bull at the given distance. The slightest variation in my hold causes part of that light around the bull to vanish. Only when the sight picture is perfect do I see a halo of light all the way around.

    The thing that makes magnified optics preferable for many is that they allow a shooter to more easily see a disturbance to the sight picture during the trigger press. This allows the same with zero parallax or other optical distortion. It can also be a great training aid. Once you have the bull centered in the globe, relax. If the sight picture shifts, you could have more bone support. Only when you can relax without shifting the sight picture do you have maximum bone support. This is where one can really fine tune his sling technique. Good shooting!
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  2. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

    4,272
    80
    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA

    I use my red dot for 50 yrds and under and in low light shooting. Other than that I use my iron sights for distance and percision shots.
     


  3. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

    4,272
    80
    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA
    Does anyone have a problem with a magnified optic( lets say a 4x ACOG) trying to adjust to close range and how do you all over come it.
     
  4. K. Foster

    K. Foster

    2,458
    365
    Feb 19, 2002
    Mo.
    At close range, it’s important to be able to shoot with both eyes open. Look up “Bindon aiming concept”. I’ve used a couple ACOGs, 3 ½ and 4X. At 25 yards and out, they’re great. At room clearing distances, I found them less than optimal. I would prefer a RDS or low power variable that can be cranked down to 2X or below.
     
  5. Matthew Courtney

    Matthew Courtney Instructor #298

    3,644
    4
    Oct 14, 2002
    Lake Charles
    The Bindon Aiming Concept works great with some practice. Sometimes 4x is a bit much magnification when one is first learning to master the technique and in some conditions an ACOG reticle is not bright enough for one whose eyes and brain are not conditioned to the concept. I use a Leupold 2-7 with Firedot illumination to teach BAC. I start with 2x and the firedot rather bright and gradually increase magnification and decrease brightness. Most shooters can get up to 4-5x magnification using the technique while picking up targets and shooting nearly as fast(.1.-.2 seconds slower for the first shot, same split times)as with an RDS.
     
  6. LA_357SIG

    LA_357SIG Milspectacular

    999
    0
    Aug 28, 2006
    Not Los Angeles.
    Ever try IDPA torso silhouette targets at 100 yards?
    [​IMG]
     
  7. My first "red dots" were the old Armson OEG's, which is where I believe this concept began, or at least got its name. You had a red, fiber optic dot on a black field (you also had a tritium dot in low light) and if you didnt shoot both eyes open, you only saw a red dot on a black field. Once you got used to them, they worked great, even out at 100 yards or so.

    These days, I still use the concept with my Aimpoints. I just close the front cover and carry on. This also works well when you are going back and forth from light to dark areas, as you can set the dot to a comfortable brightness level, and it will remain constant. You dont lose the dot in bright light, and you arent overwhelmed by it in low light.

    Yup, and beyond too.

    AK with red dot at 100...
    [​IMG]

    AK with irons at 200....
    [​IMG]

    Not just the "politically correct" targets either.....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most people I know or talk to, base their skills on how they shoot off a bench, shooting at a contrasting bullseye type target, at their leisure. Put targets with no fixed aiming point, of varying sizes (ie, just head and shoulders, etc), at varying ranges, and shoot from field positions, and its amazing how people dont seem to be able to shoot near as well as the tell you they can. What you can do at any time, "on demand", is what your true skill levels are, and that goes for whatever sighting system youre given to do it with. If you cant pick it up and put it to work, reasonably well, then you need to work on a few things.
     
  8. Warp

    Warp ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    16,292
    293
    Jul 31, 2005
    Atlanta
    Those targets ^ are all politically correct
     
  9. phil evans

    phil evans

    849
    79
    May 26, 2006
    austin tx
    Hello:
    i've got 75 year old eyes, resolution not so good,
    need targets with severe contrast.
    i'll try anything, even the cardboard silhouette.
     
  10. scccdoc

    scccdoc

    1,394
    1
    Dec 28, 2011
    Did you have to use "Lock-Tite" on your Aimpoint?
     
  11. I put a small drop on each mounting screw, and on the Weaver type screws on the rings that use them. Then again, I use it on pretty much anything gun related when it comes to securing things.
     
  12. Hey, I agree, but many ranges wont allow them these days. Luckily, I dont have to shoot at one like that anymore. :)
     
  13. scccdoc

    scccdoc

    1,394
    1
    Dec 28, 2011
    Yea, I bought a cheap BSA to see if I liked the "red dots". It doesn't hold zero, must constantly re-tighten. Probably will get the Aimpoint PRO.............. DOC
     
  14. Leigh

    Leigh

    2,553
    78
    May 22, 2000
    Eastern Kentucky
    Weaver Qwik-Point from the 1960's is probaly the earliest 'red dot' type sighting system. I had one on an 870 deer gun.

    Large, bulky, and not that great.
     
  15. Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember the Quick Points, although I never used one.

    The Armsons worked very well in most instances. My biggest complaint was "twilight" or shadows, or anywhere you went from light to dark. The fiber optic worked best in bright light, but wasnt the greatest in low light. The tritium was small, and hard to see except in almost complete darkness, or at least your eyes needed to be adjusted to it somewhat to pick it up. On either side of that though, they worked great.

    I had mine mounted on HK claw mounts and used them on G3's/HK91's and my MP5, up until the red dots started showing up. They were not bulky or cumbersome in the least, and smaller than the Aimpoint M2's.

    Once I got my first Aimpoints, I cant say I ever really missed the OEG's. Even though the Aimpoints are battery dependent (which is really a non issue, especially these days), they make up for the OEG's deficiencies. I still use the "concept" on a pretty regular basis with the cover closed on my Aimpoints though.
     
  16. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

    4,272
    80
    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA
    Yep, never know when they batteries will crap out.
     
  17. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

    4,272
    80
    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA

    Same here I used the ACOG in Iraq. I would have rathered an optic as durable that could have gone down to 2X.
     
  18. TangoFoxtrot

    TangoFoxtrot OIF 04-05

    4,272
    80
    Sep 10, 2008
    Nowhereville, USA

    Put just enough or you may have problems later on.
     
  19. Lube and LocTite seem to be big issue for some people. I guess they never heard the jingle in the old Brylcreem ads. :supergrin:

    Seriously, all you need is a "dab", it doesnt take much.