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Study: Unvaccinated kids are healthier than vaccinate kids

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Glocksanity, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    That isn't at all what he said. Like the "should" part or not, he is clearly correct that artificial resistance to disease, through vaccination, leads to a population that lacks natural resistance.

    I personally don't care, because I have no interest in the long term future of people, after I'm gone. So, I would vaccinate. But that doesn't make Patchman wrong about the consequences.

    However, getting back to the original topic, I thought it was a much more interesting thing that somebody actually advocates basing your children's medical care on a survey by a homeopathic healer. Someone half a step below "faith healer" in the medical hierarchy. That wasn't interesting to anybody?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  2. OctoberRust

    OctoberRust Anti-Federalist

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    Agreed. A bunch of conspiracy nuts love to fudge the numbers and say vaccines = instant death.

    I believe the one who started this whole deal on vaccines is now being held with criminal charges due to such.... I could be wrong though.
     

  3. Peace Warrior

    Peace Warrior Am Yisrael Chai CLM

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    Vaccines in general being good or bad is up in the air, but the autism link is still being studied due to vaccines; namely, after the mercury was removed, the incidences of autism remain.

    Here is only one link, but there is a wealth of info out there that's fair and analytical.
     
  4. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    That's because a much more compelling argument for the apparent increase in autism is simple over-diagnosis. Thirty years ago, a child would not be diagnosed as autistic unless he was sitting in the corner rocking back and forth while being largely unresponsive to normal stimuli. Today, if little Timmy daydreams to much in class he gets diagnosed as mildly autistic (or ADHD) and handed a prescription.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  5. OctoberRust

    OctoberRust Anti-Federalist

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    Thanks Geko, exactly what I was about to post in response to PW.

    SMASH gng ignorance!!! :supergrin:
     
  6. Nickotym

    Nickotym BillofNeeds?NO!

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    This has always made me scratch my head. I thought most people who support guns had enough sense to question the government's "we know best for you" attitude.

    Now can any of the vaccine supporters show me one study that proves that it was vaccines that slowed those diseases or better sanitary practices that slowed those diseases? (ETA: Remember, correlation does not necessarily equal causation.) If you research the efficacy of vaccines I have no problem with you giving them to your children. I would ask you to respect my decision not to vaccinate my children. You know, "agree to disagree".
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  7. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    Yeah, but the survey had ads for vaccines. So it's credible. :rofl:
     
  8. TactiCool

    TactiCool

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    And what proof do you have to assert the veracity of that statement? Show me a study that conclusively proves that over diagnosis is the sole cause for the increase in autism. I've looked, and I sure can't find one.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22425036

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19004564
     
  9. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    Sleep outside on the ground instead. Your children will be stronger for it!

    :wavey:
     
  10. Glock20 10mm

    Glock20 10mm Use Linux!

    Most likely be a lot less liberals running around screwing things up.
     
  11. airmotive

    airmotive Tin Kicker

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    Mrs. Airmotive, who at the age of 38, was just placed on the autism spectrum. She's an RN who graduated with a 3.98 from one of the most competitive BSN universities in the country. Yeah...the spike in autism rates have a LOT to do with diagnosis creep.
    In the last 38 years, my wife hasn't changed...the definition of autism has changed.
     
  12. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    If you know anything at all about how clinical studies are performed you would know that no one would ever make that claim no matter how compelling the evidence. Even if you find strong evidence of a corollary effect, there are always residuals (or errors) that represent other factors that have at least some influence. So, you either intentionally stated your request in a manner you knew would be unsupportable or you have no idea what you're talking about.

    At any rate, a cursory search turned up this study which showed that at least one of the diagnostic systems used for identifying autism has most likely been overdiagnosing the disorder.

    Three diagnostic systems for autism: DSM-III, DSM-III-R, and ICD-10

    You must not have looked very hard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  13. sputnik767

    sputnik767

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    Correlation does not equal causation is an all-encompassing term that people like you tend to use as a fall back when they simple don't know what else to say. But when we have data showing the incidences of typical childhood diseases plummeting after vaccination programs were began, correlation does equal causation. Lets put it simply, better hygiene did not eradicate smallpox, vaccines did. Unfortunately, the kind of proof that you are looking for can't exist. All we can do is retrospective studies and try to identify what happened, and prove it with statistical analysis. As I said before, people like you are not making an educated decision, they are doing it for other reasons, be it paranoia, distrust of the government, or simply lack of understanding. But it does not make you an intelligent person for doing so, no matter what you like to believe.
     
  14. OlliesRevenge

    OlliesRevenge

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    Vaccines are not mandatory - Nearly everyplace outside the military it is possible to take some type of exemption (and it wouldn't even surprise me if there was an exemption for military members).

    Before my daughter was born, the wife and I settled on a dramatically modified vaccine schedule, rather than the one size fits all "pump 'em full of shots" insanity -- For example, we did not allow our newborn to receive a HepB shot within minutes of her birth, as the wife was confident she did not have HepB, and we weren't planning on giving our newborn a blood transfusion (duh!).

    There are two sides to the vaccine debate -

    • Medical Freedom.
    • Safety and efficacy of the vaccines.
    Most of the conformist "take your shots" arguments can be handled in the medical freedom area alone since we have a concept called 'informed consent' that must be adhered to in medicine. Forcing someone to take shots against their will is a violation medical ethics and basic human rights.

    Vaccines are not a panacea, they are a drug product manufactured by big Pharm corporations for a profit. They have risks and benefits. They are not subjected to double blind placebo controlled studies before approval, as most drugs are. Hell, Vioxx was subjected to double blind placebo controlled studies before approval... and it still wound up killing people and costing Merck billions in settlements. Given the additional fact that vaccine manufacturers are exempt from liability -- Caveat Emptor!

    We are told that vaccines create immunity -- and in spite of the lack of research done to prove efficacy I have no reason to doubt this. I do have a problem with the logic of trying to mandate vaccines for everyone though. If they create immunity for me, why should I care if you are vaccinated or not? If I'm immune to the disease you have, I shouldn't care.

    If we explore this conflict of logic we will find some doublethink at work. At the individual level, we are given the thumbs up & told that vaccines will protect us 100%. When the argument is made for for vaccine mandates though; we discover the "herd immunity" argument, which is based on the idea that vaccines don't work for everyone, and that we need to vaccinate a large percent of the population to prevent a particular disease from proliferating. So do vaccines work all the time, or just some of the time? You can't have it both ways.
     
  15. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    Up a tree.

    I actually agree with Rabbi today.

    That wasn't a "study" - just a sales pitch.
     
  16. RonS

    RonS Millennium Member

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    Natural selection applies to species, not individuals. The ability of a species to get food, make babies and keep them alive pretty much defines survival of the fittest. Refusing to wear clothing to keep warm, build shelters, cultivate food or employ medical technology might make stronger, tougher individuals of the few who survived but would be a good way to test if cockroaches really would inherit the earth after the human race goes extinct.
     
  17. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    Up a tree.
    Maybe the autism is caused not by vaccines, but by any one of the other million or so possible causes that are currently up for debate.

    I lean toward the belief that we should probably keep the vaccines and stop feeding our kids non-stop junk food made out of field corn that's been dosed with higher levels of herbicide than ever before.
     
  18. sputnik767

    sputnik767

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    This is actually an excellent point. I have seen some studies that suggest our dependence on corn, especially in the form of high fructose corn syrup is possibly contributing to the obesity epidemic. Without getting into too much detail, the metabolism of glucose is very highly regulated in your body, whereas the metabolism of fructose is virtually unregulated. HFCS is obviously mainly fructose, whereas sucrose (table sugar) is a dimer molecule of glucose and fructose. So still contains 50% fructose, but not as much as HFCS.
     
  19. Paul53

    Paul53 Geezer Boomer

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    If an Aborigine designed an IQ test, all of Western civilization would presumably fail.
     
  20. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Vaccinations cause Herpes?? Wow, learn something every day.