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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by TBO, Jul 3, 2012.
Every coin has two sides.
That's called "trespassing"
Yes, but hardly the level where a weapon needs to be deployed. That just escalates the situation. Call the PD.
Do stupid things...win stupid prizes.
When one decides to carry a gun, they often wonder where to put it. A good place to start is by first throwing away arrogance and ignorance. Once you stop carrying those around, it's easier to find a place for the gun.
Or, the customer escalated the situation. No way of knowing from the outside how heated the "conversation" got before the store owner felt the need to draw. The customer might have been cool, calm, and collected. Or he might have been on the verge of taking physical action against the store owner.
And, one punch can be fatal.......
By dscotthewitt at 2012-06-28
+87 on the "making room" part.
Mr. Sanoma is not only rude, but he has way too short a fuse. He should not be in contact with the public and he should not have access to firearms. Fortunately, the law might well correct both problems soon. That's just my .50 worth.
Except, the only side of the story we can get from the outside is coming from the other person in the argument.......
I'll give you that, taking the article at face value, but the guy better have a good case that his life was threatened. Guess that'll come out in court.
Whatever happened to the customer always being right?
Open cellphone would have prevented this.
That's pretty interesting. I wonder what the full story is. As was said, if you take the article at face value, that store owner is probably in some deep manure. It does make me wonder, however, exactly what transpired.
The big thing to note is how important the concept of "complainant = victim" is. If the owner felt his life was threatened enough to pull a firearm, he should have called the police. Had he, I imagine that things could have turned out differently.
Yeap. It would have gone quite differently if the store owner had been the one to call the police and have the customer arrested for trespassing since he acknowledges he was told to leave and refused to do so.
It appears people that carry are more in tune with trespassing laws than the general population. Most people we know, who are not into firearms, dont seem to understand that one very well and believe they can stand there and refuse to leave until their problem is resolved.
We had that argument some time ago with a stubborn friend (birds of a feather and all that) who after a long dragged discussion agreed it would be trespassing for us because we were armed but not for him and no one but a police officer could force him to vacate an establishment open to the public. We kept trying to explain none of us could stay after being told to leave, the difference in charges could be trespass for him and possibly armed trespass for us, but the trespass part applied equally.
Next time we saw him I had printed material that demonstrated otherwise and he finally conceded with I cant believe I can be arrested because someone doesnt resolve a problem theyre obligated to fix! Im stubborn too and wasnt about to let it go so easily, plus, we didnt want our friend arrested one day because he didnt know when to give up, count his loses and address his problem another day or over the phone with supervisors.
Actually, that was the whole problem! The customer couldn't figure out how to open his cellphone battery compartment.
Bingo! At the very least, better to have trespass charges filed against a customer than to be charged with pulling a gun on your customers.
In this case, it seems like a right exercised is a right that's about to be lost...
IMO.............as the number of folks who have CCP's grows, the larger the number of knotheads will become. The folks who got their permits sooner rather than later IMO... are those who know how to use a gun......and when not to.
Those who are recent newcomers to the game may be among those not quite familiar with what to do with or how to use a gun. In other words.............knotheads.
Some of us newcomers have gone out of our way to learn as quickly as humanly possible. I have a feeling you are likely to find knotheads in either sector. I dont see the correlation between common sense and being a long term gun owner.
I have to wonder what actually transpired, too. PO'd customer could have made up a story to get even with the rude store owner. There are 3 sides to the story. Places like this usually have security video. If it exists, that will probably be the deciding factor.
Contrary to popular belief, the customer isn't always right. If he is in this case, the store owner is in deep doo-doo.