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Stopping Active Shooters Immediately

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by Deaf Smith, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. Here is an excellent article on why if's necessary for the first responding officer or civilian to immediately engage any active shooter.

    http://www.policeone.com/active-sho...-single-officer-entry-against-active-killers/

    A few high points:

    • 98% of active killers act alone.

    • 80% have long guns, 75% have multiple weapons (about 3 per incident), and they sometimes bring hundreds of extra rounds of ammunition to the shooting site.

    • Despite such heavy armaments and an obsession with murder at close range, they have an average hit rate of less than 50%.

    • They strike “stunned, defenseless innocents via surprise ambush. On a level playing field, the typical active killer would be a no-contest against anyone reasonably capable of defending themselves.”

    • “They absolutely control life and death until they stop at their leisure or are stopped.” They do not take hostages, do not negotiate.

    • They generally try to avoid police, do not hide or lie in wait for officers and “typically fold quickly upon armed confrontation.”

    • 90% commit suicide on-site. “Surrender or escape attempts are unlikely.”

    Deaf
     
  2. PhoneCop

    PhoneCop TeleDetective

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    San Antonio, TX
    Thanks for the post.

    You know you'll soon be under attack for being such a cowboy. A rambo. A wannabe... ya know, nothing new. :upeye:

    All I know is that if I am at the nursing home/mall/university/church/restaurant/school when the shots start up, I'll it could be moving towards the shooter and not away.

    We'll be the wanna-bes together. Dead or alive, we'll still be heros, not ball-less biatches defending our cowardness with intellectual pockycock.
     

  3. TINCUP AL

    TINCUP AL

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    Thanks for the post. I think some of the comments afterwards were more informative and thought provoking than the article itself.
     
  4. chuckman

    chuckman

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    Who the hell wants to be a 'hero'? I just want to be alive. Have you been around an active shooting? My priority is me and my family, everyone else is a distant second. If I can do something to the shooter, that is gravy, but not job one. But this is a good article.
     
  5. TINCUP AL

    TINCUP AL

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    I think this post is directed towards the lone officer responding as first on the scene, not regular joe out shopping with his family. The priorities of life as given to an officer puts him second from the bottom. Not on top.
    ( edited to add that in my opinion this is not being a "hero", it is just what needs to be done to save lives )
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2009
  6. Exactly. Dead heroes are just dead, and usually only heroes in their own mind. You don't save folks by getting yourself killed. And it is a pretty good bet some of the commentors not only have never been around an active shooter, they have never been in a gunfight at all.
     
  7. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Couple of things I always point out when this article surfaces.

    One, they are playing a numbers game going by averages and statistics. Kind of like the stats that say the average gunfight is over in less than a half a dozen rounds yet how many people refuse to carry a revolver because they are limited in capacity.

    Two, if you go in and get killed by yourself, at least for an officer you have to remember that not only are your guns and ammo now available to the suspect but so is your radio. How would you like to be officer #2 showing up with the suspect knowing where you and any other information you put out on the radio?
     
  8. PhoneCop

    PhoneCop TeleDetective

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    I sure as hell don't want to live as a coward.
     
  9. PhoneCop

    PhoneCop TeleDetective

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    I've had a few people try to hurt my feelings...

    it is it will generate a lot of discussion.
     
  10. Hedo1

    Hedo1

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    “Officers need to understand valid military principles that apply to these calls, such as speed, surprise and violence of action,” Borsch insists. “They need to learn how to close in and finish the fight with aggression, having and keeping the ‘momentum of battle’ on their side. The idea is to keep the adversary off-balance by forcing him always to react to your actions, rather than, after contact, reacting to him.”

    He is telling the responders to get inside the OODA loop of the shooter. This serves two purposes. It distracts the shooter from his task which is killing more people. It also makes him react to the responder rather then initiating the pace and tempo of the confrontation.

    I think this is a good strategy. Might not be the safest route for the responder but it seems like it would be effective in shutting down the shooter. Would like to see some practical examples.
     
  11. chuckman

    chuckman

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    I am not talking about being a coward. Keeping me and my family alive is plenty heroic. I think the article is aimed toward LEOs, but good info nonetheless. The reason I asked re: having been in a shooting, I remember going downrange for the first time (mil, not LEO), thinking all sorts of heroic things, only to see myself turn into someone very afraid, falling back on training (and yes, that training did make me run to the sounds, not away). I am not gonna say I cried, but I will say that if I did, there no longer any photographic evidence.
     
  12. All I can say is this guys. The SOP of getting all the SWAT team together, get intel on the setup of the building, and then waiting till the shooting is over has so far been 100 percent to late.

    A few have tried. One at the Tacoma, Washington Mall, and another at the Tyler Texas court house. Both did get shot to pieces, but at least the one in Tyler forced the killer to break contact and leave (Mark Wilson was his name of the man who gave is life) and definatly saved lives.

    The SWAT SOP waiting till the shooting is over has not save any that I know of.

    We will see if any LEO actually tries the new tactic.

    Deaf
     
  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    The proper order is:
    1. Live hero
    2. Dead coward
    3. Dead hero
    4. Live coward

    Jeff Cooper wrote that. Just injecting some history.
     
  14. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    You might wanna get brought up to speed on SOPs before you pontificate on this one.
     
  15. +1. Way too many folks try to talk about way too much stuff they have absolutely no knowledge about or understanding, particularly when it comes to LE ops, tactics, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  16. Beeman

    Beeman NRA MEMBER

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    OH
    Yep, Columbine changed things for the departments around me. Even the little Township PD here trains for active shooters.
     
  17. PhoneCop

    PhoneCop TeleDetective

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    I need to read more of his writings. Thanks for sharing.
     
  18. MTPD

    MTPD

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    Oh no, here we go again! :whistling:

    The object is NOT to be a dead hero, but to take out the criminal ASAP so as to save innocents. As I have mentioned multiple times, the "wait for SWAT" mentality didn't exist prior to SWAT.

    In those days the first responders (on my high crime area department at least) immediately confronted armed felons, and if the felons didn't surrender instantly they were shot. And "instantly" was a mater of seconds, not minutes, hours or days. And guess what David, it always worked just fine = no dead heroes, just dead or wounded felons.
     
  19. Yep, here we go again. MTPD will now share with us his mystical made-up adventures in MTPDland.
    That same department you have not been able to convince any real cops you ever served on? OK.:upeyes:
    Yes, we've heard it all before. You and yours were ahead of all other agencies in the country and never did anyting wrong and were famous for outdrawing the BGs and you saved the President and fought off hordes of gangbangers and won all sorts of awards and such. Too bad none of it has ever been shown to have the slightest shred of proof.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2009
  20. Tailhunter

    Tailhunter Glockman

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    Well, ya know, people will do what people will do. Some will help, some will run. The ones that run will use their families as an excuse. The ones that help will have no excuse, just a need to do the right thing according to them. So just as the caliber wars rage on, so will the discussions on what to do.

    Right or wrong ... we will all do something.