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Start Positions, discussion, pics, vids, etc

Discussion in 'GSSF' started by S.Kargoh, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. S.Kargoh

    S.Kargoh

    450
    0
    Feb 1, 2005
    WA
    Low ready, compressed ready, fully ready, sight picture, etc etc





    Here is my "rendition".


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJzvYxzyU9s"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

    Post a vid or pic of yours.


    From a live match or prax session if possible.
     
  2. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    Your video says its private???? Guess you have to make it public before we can see???
    Heres mine but not sure if you can see. I imitate the videos I saw of the Gunny Challenge, muzzle to the barrel.
    [ame]http://youtu.be/cBE06ERhIfE[/ame]
     


  3. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    Good deal. Just wanted to give you the heads up. :wavey: Now its there and I can see. You start at about the same postition as me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  4. S. - Great ready position from what I see. The RO however is standing on your left side and you are right-handed, so he can't see your trigger finger if it gets on the trigger prematurely. Same with Mike's video - assuming you're a right-handed shooter, Mike.
     
  5. Mike's RO is also watching the plates instead of the gun and shooter!
     
  6. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    SARDG I've noticed a lot of ROs tend to watch the action as opposed to running it. Myself I got busted putting my finger in the trigger guard last year in Lexington and quickly broke the habit but I wonder if this is more often missed than I thought? I saw some blatant rule infractions at the last match (not Beckley) that I attended. USPSA teaches safety by DQing you for infractions, why is this less prevalent in the GSSF?
     
  7. Sadly, this is true...

    It's missed a ton! And if the RO doesn't stand on the shooter's strong side, they have no chance of seeing it -and that means moving to the left side for southpaws. (only)

    I think we're not trying to bust people, so much as teach them. But by missing countless infractions that slide by, we're not teaching them much at all about other sanctiioned shooting sports and what to expect.
     
  8. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    That's what I call an answer!!! Thanks SARDG!!! :wavey:
     
  9. Here are 2 shots of an RO using the correct hand for the timer and held in the correct position for the shooter to hear and the timer to pick up the shots (even if the sensitivity is turned down for close-by stages) - and watching the gun/shooter during the CoF.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. ede

    ede Bama's Friend

    8,307
    84
    Jun 25, 2004
    Texas
    I'm not smart enough to post photos or videos. I use the arms/elbows touching body start position. The best, and old GSSF method I seen for starting without a holster was to use a painted spot on the ground/target/plate to aim at. Very consistant and not much room for deviation.

    When I RO GSSF I like to hold timer in my strong hand and block the view of the targets with the timer and watch the pistol. USPSA is a little more difficult to block targets with the timer but I still watch the gun, much easier to have an issue with gun handeling in USPSA but more likely in GSSF.
     
  11. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

    19,795
    174
    Dec 17, 1998
    Roanoke, Virginia
    GSSF RO's are usually volunteer range members. Level I USPSA RO's must take a class, written test and field test, and must requalify with written tests. There is a lot of difference between little training and intense training.

    Personally , I use the low ready, pistol muzzle pointed down at the ground at a 45% angle. GSSF used to paint an orange marker about 10 feet out, to assist shooters in finding the "low ready."

    At our indoor series in Roanoke, Simon and I make sure every shooter starts at the low-ready position. trigger finger off the trigger.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  12. Gary1911A1

    Gary1911A1

    3,267
    57
    Jun 14, 2005
    Ohio for now
    I use a position similar to the OP in his video with my elbows touching my sides. ede showed me a similar position years ago.:wavey:
     
  13. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    So just to clarify this for me Danny when I was pointing at the barrel yesterday (finger off the trigger, muzzle down at a 45 degree angle, behind the barrel as you may have seen) was I correct? Is this up to the discretion of the RO?
     
  14. DannyR

    DannyR Moderator Millennium Member

    19,795
    174
    Dec 17, 1998
    Roanoke, Virginia
    Mike, your pistol should be aimed at the ground 10 feet in front of the barrel. It is also up to the shooter to select the approved ready position of choice, not the RO. The RO must be aware of the various approved positions and should speak out if one is not used.
     
  15. mike g35

    mike g35

    2,240
    0
    Jun 23, 2011
    Charleston W.V.
    And that why I call you coach. Thank you Danny. I know it's strange having someone who's not new to the game ask these questions but I'm reworking my entire approach to GSSF starting today which includes brushing up on the rules and their definitions along with practical application. I'm even considering volunteering at some matches next year and I will need to be at the top of my game to do so. I RO (stand in for an RO actually) at local USPSA matches which I'm much more familiar with, no reason not to do the same at GSSF matches after I get a firm handle on things. I have a lot to do though, and sadly alot to buy. Standardizing my gear (sights, triggers, etc) won't come cheap but it's far more than necessary if I want to start moving past my 100-150 score brick wall. I was a little discouraged after adding my scores yesterday where I thought I had did better. I got a lot of tips from top level shooters and those in the know and I figured out my approach isn't helping me and neither is my gear. You can't buy a win by buying the best gear but you can improve your chances by using the same gear over avid over and over and over and....... You get my point. :wavey:
     
  16. ...as is true for IDPA SOs who, unlike GSSF, must first be IDPA members/shooters/competitors. In other words, you must practice the sport, before policing the sport. Not true in GSSF, nor is Glock ownership a prerequisite. I don't believe there are any real prerequisites, but Cindy Noyes is one GSSF MD (Conyers) who sends out questionaires to volunteers to gauge their experience before assigning them. Of course, she is also a GSSF Match Coordinator - and a USPSA shooter/RO.

    IDPA SOs also have class training, an extensive practicum (practical range work), and an exam. They must also design at least one CoF.

    GSSF commands seem closest to IDPA commands in general, but most of the GSSF staff and many GSSF RO volunteers are USPSA shooters - and I hear USPSA commands frequently.

    I run ladies' events at my club and have to recruit our club ROs and Instructors all the time to pull them off. By the same token these GSSF matches couldn't happen at all if not for the volunteers. I just wish there was more and better training for them all.

    Before I shot my first GSSF match, I read not only the rules - but all the RO Guides available at the time. All our competitors - ROs or not - could benefit from reading those guides.
     
  17. From the 2012 RO Guide:

    "Start Position: Standing on the centerline of the target array, facing
    downrange in an accepted “ready” position. (Firearm held in hands with
    muzzle pointed into berm, no higher than parallel to the ground or lower
    with competitor’s forearms touching the torso. OR “Low Ready”; arms
    extended, gun pointing down at the ground at about a 45 degree angle.
    On start signal, gun is raised from the shoulders, not from the wrists.
    Prior to start signal, trigger finger must be outside the firearm’s trigger
    guard."


    From the rules in The Glock Report:

    130.60 "Start position. Follow Range Officer instructions
    at all times at each stage. After the Range Officer
    has directed you to handle and load your firearm
    (“Make Ready”), you will start in one of the two acceptable
    “ready” positions. Hold your firearm in
    your hands, with your forearms touching your torso.
    The GLOCK muzzle is pointed into the impact
    berm behind the targets, parallel to the ground or
    lower, at the ground between you and the targets.
    Alternatively, hold your firearm in the “Low Ready”
    position; both arms holding the firearm, arms
    roughly straight, firearm pointed at the ground NO
    MORE THAN about 6 feet in front of the shooter, at
    the sole judgment of the Range Officer. Finger(s)
    must be outside of the firearm’s trigger guard."


    Going back to high school geometry, we can see that "6 feet in front of the shooter" would be slightly different angles (degrees) for different height shooters. Also, for shorter shooters, 6 feet may not clear a bench or other platform that the shooter is using. I can't see however, how 6 feet wouldn't clear a barrel for any shooter. Nonetheless, "at the sole judgment of the Range Officer" gives the RO some latitude when making this call. That latitude should never involve a position that's only 15-30 degrees below parallel - and certainly never pointing straight at the targets as I have seen on occassion.

    To continue...
    From all Courses of Fire in The Glock Report:

    "Start Position: Standing on the centerline of the target array, facing downrange in the “ready” or “low ready” position. (Ready: Firearm held in hands with muzzle pointed into berm, no higher than parallel to the ground or lower with competitor’s forearms touching the torso. On start signal, Firearm is “punched” out at the targets. Low Ready; Arms extended, Firearm pointed at ground about 6’ in front of shooter. On start signal, Firearm is swung up from the shoulders, wrists locked. Finger(s) must be outside the firearm’s trigger guard until start signal sounds)."
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012