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Stainless Steel/Aluminum Follower or "NO"?

31K views 84 replies 23 participants last post by  aippi 
#1 ·
I did a search and only turned up 4 threads on the subject. They really didn't answer any of my questions.

Here's what I've got:

Wilson Border Patrol 12 Ga.
6+1
870 Express
(And no, I didn't spend thousands of dollars on it. I got it when they were still in the 800 dollar range. Awesome shotgun!)

I am doing a couple of upgrades to it right now.

So far:

Remington 870 Police Trigger Assembly group (Got a thread about that too)
Speed Feed "Short LOP" stock
TacStart Side Saddle
Upgrading to Wolff Tube Springs

What I would like are some Pros and Cons of the metal style followers vs. the synthetic followers.

Currently I have the Wilson style synthetic follower. I haven't had any problems with it. However, if a metal follower is a better upgrade, I would like to start using them.

Pros to Steel/Cons to Steel

Pros to Aluminum/Cons to Aluminum

Pros to Synthetic/Cons to Synthetic

I appreciate the help!
 
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#52 · (Edited)
DHart - I just received some of the Derlin followers that the owner of GDM sent me. I will try them out but can't pass judgement till I put some rounds through the weapon. To me, most all the followers out there do what they are designed to do when new. It is after hundreds of rounds when they start showing wear that problems come up.

I am led to understand this Derlin material is pretty tuff so I am looking forward to trying these out.

Since I have all Wilson tubes on my personal weapons I of course use the follower that comes with that tube, the wilson follower.

I tried using the Wilson followers on my custom builds for those guys that wanted the Remington tube extension. I started seeing issues when the Wilson was being used in the Remington tube with the Remington spring. Not on every weapon, but on enough that I stopped using it on the Remington tube extension kits.

So, I am hoping the Derlin one is the answer. You can see them at www.gdmgear.com and check out those barrel brackets with rails and the one for attaching a light. He sent me one of each to test also.
JD... you must be referring to Scott's cdmgear.com, right? The S&J delrin followers. I've heard that the Wilson followers were picky about what springs they were used with. And that the S&J (out of Canada) delrin followers are potentially very good. Scott's a good man with some great products... I'm working with him at present to photograph his products for his website. (I did the product photography for Kim Ahrends as well, for his website, http://www.ahrendsgripsusa.com)
 
#54 ·
Yes, nothing has changed. Stainless steel is still stainless steel and it is harder the the lip that stops the follower. It is still not recommended. But hey, some of these guys on this site no more then them silly Instructors who all have 40+ years building these weapons and servicing them. When they are not instuction they are the guys that are working on the P models sent in for repair.

Also, I did find in Jerry Kuhnhausen book where he talks about the damage a stainless steel follower does. But again, what does he know, he only wrote the "Book" on the Remington shotgun.

So all you guys that can't accpet the facts from the professionals who build these weapons and the guy who wrote the difinitive shop manual on these weapon, just keep using any ol' follower you want.
Come on now, J.D., just stop it. You know that this is the internet, where reading one rumour or opinion instantly makes one an expert on any topic, imbued with far more knowledge than any of the professionals in the field who actually have experience!:wow:
 
#55 ·
Sorry Dave, I just got caught up in the issue. Think I will get some of them Stainless steel followers and just replace my receivers when the follower stop rim gets FUBAR. This way I won't have to send it in the factory for a new mag tube.

However, the owner of GDM Gear just sent me some Derlin Combat followers to check out and I will run them in my weapons and see how well they work.
 
#56 ·
FWIW There was a time when ALL 870 Wingmasters came from the factory with Steel Shell Followers. I really liked the way they functioned (low drag) and I have scavenged several over the years to put in my newer 870s, 1100s and 11-87s. Remington stopped supplying them when they started cutting corners to reduce costs, and that's the absolute truth. So I think some of the lore now coming out of the company about "damage" caused by steel followers may be based more on propaganda than fact. However, I do agree that it is vitally important to frequently remove the mag spring and follower, scrub out the mag tube, then light lube it with Rem Oil or the like. I've made it a hobby to buy and restore used Remington shotguns and it never ceases to amaze me how fouled, rusty, and cruddy that area can be in an otherwise very clean gun.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has observed an galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals (aluminum follwer v. steel mag tube) in any of there guns? I've been intrigued by the S&J Delrin followers and plan to give one a test drive soon.

However, think one of the real danger points people should be aware of is when using of Mag Extension Tubes. One can seem to work great. But once you take it off the gun during cleaning it may not work properly after it has been re installed. But the problem will not be realized until the next time the gun is used. (Often this is just a matter of the extension tube, not the coupling, be screwed on too tight). So my advice if you are LE is after you clean your shotgun and reassemble it, load it completely up and then (VERY CAREFULLY!) cycle all the rounds through the gun. That's the only way you will know whether it will feed when you need it to.
 
#58 ·
FWIW However, think one of the real danger points people should be aware of is when using of Mag Extension Tubes. One can seem to work great. But once you take it off the gun during cleaning it may not work properly after it has been re installed. But the problem will not be realized until the next time the gun is used. (Often this is just a matter of the extension tube, not the coupling, be screwed on too tight).
I know a lot of folks use extensions quite reliably, but I'm not a big fan of them myself. That being one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Winchester 1300 Defender... with just an 18" barrel, you get a one-piece, full-length mag tube for a total capacity of 8-shots! No extensions, no clamps. Just some thing to consider for those looking for a great pump shotgun for defense use.

 
#60 · (Edited)
As for cycling rounds through the shotgun to test the functioning of an extension, I have no qualms about doing that, IF NEED BE. That is NOT how I unload my shotguns, but I'm comfortable doing so if needed. Of course I'm a guy who shoots in his home and on his property, so my circumstances might be different from others. I'd be less comfortable doing that if I lived in an apartment or not on acreage
 
#61 ·
I knew that I would draw some heat from my comments about 1) lubing the inside of the mag tube and 2) cycling live rounds through a shotgun. So please let me clarify.

Clearly, with respect to "lubing" one has to use common sense. However, I think you are very safe if you use a light product light Rem Oil and then let it sit for a day or so to let the surface dry out. You might even gently swab out the area with a clean patch so nothing is wet when it comes time reload the gun. Also there is some strong evidence that the threat of oil v. ammo might be overstated. I think a lot of that comes from the experience of poorly trained and unknowledgeable police officers who have saturated their guns with oil then months later have had misfires. The attached link provides some very interesting test results.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm

With respect to cycling live rounds through a shotgun, I have found that is the only way to know for sure whether the gun will feed. Just my experience. However, I agree that when unloading a shotgun under normal circumstances it should always be a standard practice to simply manually release the shell catche(s) at the end of the mag tube and then ease out the shells through the loading port. To do otherwise is unnecessarily dangerous and is a sign of inexperience and lack of knowledge.

I'm really enjoying the back and forth on this thread! It's getting a lot of good ideas out for discussion and everyones opinion and experience has great value.
 
#62 ·
Areo- it not the oil on the ammo thing. It is that oil causes gunk. Micro dust and mess attaches to it. It only takes three, very, very, very light drops of oil to oil the 870 internally. And none of that should go into the mag tube. Liberal applications on the outside are required based on finish.

For the magazine tube I simply run a wooden dowel covered with steel wool through the magazine tube each time I clean my weapon and my mag tubes are run dry and look like mirrors inside. I make this device myslef. You can see it on my How to video "tube Extension Kit" on www.aiptactical.com great tool for polishing the barrel chamber also.

Testing for cycling is best done with Dummey rounds not live ammo. As many AD's happen while cleaning as do on the range. Checking to see if the magazine tube will take 6 rounds is a good idea after install but safe unloading is wise and I use Dummy round for that also. I often thought about doing this with live rounds in the house back during my marriage but was not sure about trying this as my background could have been a problem claiming an AD.

I am sure there are guys that don't agree and they are welcome to maintain their weapon as they see fit.
 
#63 ·
Areo- it not the oil on the ammo thing. It is that oil causes gunk. Micro dust and mess attaches to it. It only takes three, very, very, very light drops of oil to oil the 870 internally. And none of that should go into the mag tube. Liberal applications on the outside are required based on finish.

For the magazine tube I simply run a wooden dowel covered with steel wool through the magazine tube each time I clean my weapon and my mag tubes are run dry and look like mirrors inside. I make this device myslef. You can see it on my How to video "tube Extension Kit" on www.aiptactical.com great tool for polishing the barrel chamber also.

Testing for cycling is best done with Dummey rounds not live ammo. As many AD's happen while cleaning as do on the range. Checking to see if the magazine tube will take 6 rounds is a good idea after install but safe unloading is wise and I use Dummy round for that also. I often thought about doing this with live rounds in the house back during my marriage but was not sure about trying this as my background could have been a problem claiming an AD.

I am sure there are guys that don't agree and they are welcome to maintain their weapon as they see fit.
JD... I assume you run extensions on your go-to-defense 870s. Have you ever had a feed issue related to the extension at all? Do you check functioning of the extension somehow after reassembling from cleaning the gun?
 
#64 ·
It's awesome that this particular thread is still going. I kind of forgot about it and was going to start a new up in regards to the aluminum follower.

So, an update to the aluminum follower…

I put 150 rounds down range since I got the follower.

Here's the scoop…When I start loading the magazine tube, after the 4th round, I can't load anymore rounds. I have to rack the shotgun to load a round into the chamber and then I'm good to go. Now mind you, I already have a round in the chamber…6+1…

Any thoughts? I changed out the mag tube spring…Wolf spring, the same one Wilson uses, and the Wilson hi viz follower to the aluminum style one I got. Never had this issue before using the Wilson follower.
 
#65 · (Edited)
Sounds like the tube extension was not properly installed when you put it back on. What tube are you running?

If Remington, the tube goes on appart. Take it off and remove the mag tube coupling. Now screw the coupling on first, install follower and spring and then the tube, just befor you run out of threads for the tube, bump the mag tube coupling with the heel of you hand, screw the tube down, bump again. Tighten tube.

If other extension that are one piece, just before you tighten them bump the coupling with the heel of you hand like above. What happens is the mag tube spring gets caught in the threads and will not let you load all the rounds.
 
#66 ·
Sounds like the tube extension was not properly installed when you put it back on. What tube are you running?

If Remington, the tube goes on appart. Take it off and remove the mag tube coupling. Now screw the coupling on first, install follower and spring and then the tube, just befor you run out of threads for the tube, bump the mag tube coupling with the heel of you hand, screw the tube down, bump again. Tighten tube.

If other extension that are one piece, just before you tighten them bump the coupling with the heel of you hand like above. What happens is the mag tube spring gets caught in the threads and will not let you load all the rounds.



I will do this tonight ASAP! Thank you for the heads up!

It is a Wilson Border Patrol Shotgun. 6+1 and I believe it is a Wilson extension. I cannot remember at this time.
 
#67 ·
The facts don't support them.

Sometimes the experts are wrong or have been misguided. Sometimes you have think for yourself, listen and go by your own experience. I have some experience with shotgun mag tubes and I have never seen or heard of any damage ever being caused by a steel follower. I have used them in several of my shotguns for going 7 years now. Steel followers have been used for many years and if it was common, threads on the subject would have already been posted on the forums.

The Vang stainless follower is a very heavy duty follower. If it was causing damage to shotgun mag tubes it would have been pulled long ago.

At one time the experts thought the Earth was flat.


GC

Since the polymer ones work just fine why spend money on something that may cause damage and a malfunction at the very worst time?
 
#68 ·
aippi -- Yes, I understand the gunk, grit and goo issue, too, and agree lube can attract bad things. So your advice is sage. But it is also a matter of balance as long as one does not over do it. With regard to using 0000 steel wool, I tend to avoid it when working the inside areas of firearms. I find that it breaks down into little shards that tend get stuck under ejector springs, shell catchers, etc. and they can be very hard to flush out even with brake cleaner or Gunk Out and things like that. Typically, I will very gently use a bronze brush in the mag tube followed by rags on a dowel. Sometimes I will also use crocus cloth wrapped around a 10 or 12 gauge swab on a cleaning rod with a little Flitz or Brasso to get a final polish.

However, your point about using dummy rounds to check for proper cycling is an excellent one. I completely agree that using live rounds only invites a potential tragedy or, at best, thoroughly embarrassing and humiliating situation. KIDS, DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME!
 
#69 ·
I know a lot of folks use extensions quite reliably, but I'm not a big fan of them myself. That being one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Winchester 1300 Defender... with just an 18" barrel, you get a one-piece, full-length mag tube for a total capacity of 8-shots! No extensions, no clamps. Just some thing to consider for those looking for a great pump shotgun for defense use.

I wonder why remington does not offer full length one piece magazines on at least some 870 models. I'm not a fan of extensions either but love the 870s.
 
#70 ·
Forgive me if I'm getting a little too far off topic but I'm looking for a two or three round mag extension for one of my Remington 870 20 gauge shotguns. I know Remington makes one but they are a bit difficult to come buy unless you buy an extension that is already installed on a new gun. Apparently, they don't sell them separately for a variety of reasons. I also know that Choate makes extension tubes for 20 gauge Remingtons, however, I do not care for the aesthetics of those parts. Does anyone know of other manufacturers that make 20 gauge mag extensions? Or how it might be possible to obtain an OEM Remington 870 unit? By the way, to get this thread back on track, be advised that when I find a 20 gauge extension I plan to use an aluminum shell follower from Brownells.
 
#74 ·
OK, I work with steel and aluminum all day every day, it may not be with guns but I can tell you this. With the amount of force that the mag spring puts on the follower, there is absolutely noo way steel would do any more damage than aluminum. The only way your guys' logic would make any sense, is if the aluminum follower, somehow flexed/bent/sprung every time it hit the follower stop. Aluminum will flex and bend but again, not possible with the amount of pressure that the spring puts on the follower. That low amount of pressure also makes the difference in hardness and rigidity between steel and aluminum completely irrelivent. And yes, by saying this I most definitely am argueing with the experts who say different. Not to mention the follower doesn't even slam into the stop in the first place, and if it did the MAX length it would be "slamming" from is 3 inches. Let me say this again. With the force that the spring puts on the follower; There is NO WAY that steel would do any more damage. How is that for some logic? I will say though that aluminum tends to be a bit more "slippery" when talking metal on metal contact, so the only way it would do more damage than an aluminum follower is damage to the actual mag tube. But again that can be very well fixed with a quick wire wheel and polishing to the steel, although they are probably perfect from the factory. I can see an advantage with the aluminum, that being it will be slightly lighter in weight. I personally would not go with a metal follower anyway just because it will be harder to safety check. Plus I don't mind replacing things here and there. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
 
#75 ·
Devin - Call 1-800-243-9700 and set Remington straight on this. You may be able to contact Jerry Kuhnhausen through Heritage -VSP Publications, Box 887, McCall ID, 83638 and let him know he is wrong also. He also has had shop manuals published for 39 other weapons so he may have a lot of incorrect information in those manuals also.
 
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