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So firearms companies are screwing cops..

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by FiremanMike, Feb 18, 2013.


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  1. jay1975

    jay1975
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  2. txleapd

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    Like I said earlier, the point of my posts has nothing to do with taking away the ability of average law-abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves.

    I fully recognize and support people's right to arm themselves for the protection of themselves and others.

    It was asked how cops are different from your average law-abiding citizen. I was pointing out some of those differences. We take the calls to go into harms way. We respond to scenes while others run away. We face the monsters others don't want to. It's our job and our duty to do so. It's expected of us.

    This does not take away anyone's right to protect themselves. But, it's the difference between cops and your average law-abiding citizen.

    I know we can't be everywhere all the time. But we're the ones who get called when things go south, and we're the ones who have to clean up the mess.


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  3. Mayhem like Me

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    They can call it what they want ... I was a Lodge president unless you bring them in as a bargining agent it is a fraternal lodge.. that is why they are two distinct entities..
    The majority of FOP members pay no money into bargining unit dues, it goes into the fraternal orginization.
     
  4. txleapd

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    I think that you're reading into what you're actually reading. Go back and read some of my previous posts.

    This time with an open mind.


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    #144 txleapd, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  5. Mayhem like Me

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    #145 Mayhem like Me, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  6. jay1975

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    "I prefer Fine citizen..or mope..."
    LOL
     
  7. WarCry

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    Reading through some of this stuff, there seems to be some confusion - intentional or not - about what's going on with these companies.

    First, it seems (and I could be reading it wrong) that some folks think the companies are refusing to sell to cops AT ALL, anywhere. That's not true, it's specifically about places where some of the idiotic laws are coming through, like NY.

    Second, I don't believe there's any direct "attack" on sales to police. Rather what they're saying is they're going to apply the same restrictions regarding sales to police and agencies that the general public can get.


    Now, I'm not saying I agree with this - frankly, I've of the mind that the police should be able to acquire and carry whatever they feel they need to do their job safely and effectively. But it IS decision of these companies to determine how they want to run their business.

    And as someone else said, it's not a statement against the police in those areas. It's a statement against those passing these laws. The idea is that the police will be put in the same position by the retailers as the average non-LEO residents* have been put in by the legislators. Again, agree or not, I think there is a valid argument to be made.



    *That's a little more unwieldy than civilian or citizen, but I think it gets the point across, right?
     
  8. RussP

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    RJ 71, I'm surprised you left the discussion, well, no, I'm not surprised. You got your snipes in with the ever present "family and friends" qualifier, as well as the old "its a really dangerous job. But that's what they signed up for."

    Now, I'm down here in firearm friendly Virginia. We pretty much can have whatever LE carries. There are people who want that changed. They think prohibiting lawful carry will prevent violence involving firearms. We've been able to stay ahead of them through the efforts of groups like VCDL and individual citizens.

    Oh yeah, my son is a Deputy Sheriff and I have a few friends in LE, too. :cool:
     
  9. msu_grad_121

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    Thank you for responding. When I read that, my brain literally started hurting. I believe it was as punishment for entertaining such an uninformed line of crap.

    So your state doesn't have a "failure to yield to emergency vehicle" statute? Sucks to be you, I guess. If I "request" the right of way, and can cite you if you fail to give it to me, how is that not a demand, exactly?

    Saadly, no matter how much you debate with logic and cite your source, some people are going to stick their fingers in their ears and scream loud as they try to baffle you with bull****.

    As for the actual topic of this thread, I have only this to say: I find it disgusting that these companies would withhold lifesaving goods or services from ANYONE as a political statement.

    I agree with the message they're trying to send, but not the way they are sending it. Just like I won't agree when Glock, S&W, et al. refuse to make seven round mags for guns designed to take high capactiy magazines. I realize why they're doing it, but I disagree with it on a personal level.

    Hence, even after this crap has been straightened out, I won't willingly purchase from these companies again. I did it with Colt when they threatened to stop selling to "civilians" some years ago, and I see this as no different (and yes, those are sarcastic quotation marks, just to clarify). I realize these companies don't give a rat's rosy red rectum about me and my piddly little money, but this is the option I have available to me, and just as they are exercising their right to refuse to sell to cops in states where these moronic laws have been passed, I am exercising my right to purchase from someone else who won't deny my brethren lifesaving tools in the name of a political statement.

    In short: screw those companies.
     
    #149 msu_grad_121, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  10. countrygun

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    As long s it isn't "Puke" or "Scrote" I can live with that
     
  11. RussP

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    The part in red, the :rofl:, does create a context where "civilian/civi is indeed pejorative.
     
  12. jay1975

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    I was taking a swipe at someone who insulted me, nothing more.
     
  13. RyanNREMTP

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    So what is the argument over now? I can't keep up.

    Sent from my Federation issued communicator.
     
  14. Mayhem like Me

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    Everyone gets my best behavior .. till they show me that they do not respond to civil discussion...

    Then they are mopes....Pukes and Scrotes come later
     
  15. RussP

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    Some people find it entertaining, this back and forth about whether LE officers/deputies/agents are civilians or not.

    Jay, you reject the Merriam-Webster definition of civilian. Are there any other definitions you do not accept?

    Let me ask this. Why are the municipal bodies charged with the investigation of complaints by members of the public concerning misconduct by police called "Civilian Review Boards"? Is it to differentiate them from the police?

    And, yes, there is within the military branches civilian police forces.

    And, yes, there are within LE agencies civilian employees, called such to differentiate them from sworn LE employees.

    If you want to call sworn LE personnel "civi" or civilian, justifying it has an old military habit, have at it. Do understand that as is quoted above, it may or may not be contextually correct. In the wrong context, it will be considered pejorative.

    It is like the word "cop". It has very different meanings to different people. Some can be defined. There is one usage for which there is no written definition, but when used, others understand.

    Lets agree then that those in law enforcement are citizens first.

    The descriptor "civilian" may be used referencing members of LE, but the appropriateness is based on the totality of the context.
     
  16. RussP

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    Thanks for confirming what I said!! :thumbsup:
     
  17. Southswede

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    My reading comprehension is fine. I am seeing a clear division between groups of gun supporters. Perhaps you should take a closer look.
     
  18. Mayhem like Me

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    yes you are because you are not being truthfull, does the CCW holder deserve to carry a gun while other citizens cannot, if you truly cared you would also demand that CCW holders not be allowed this preferntial treatment, and that they be treated like everyone else..Oh wait no thats not what you meant..

    Does the CCW holder in my state deserve not to pay for a records check when buying a firearm, yet I have to pay everytime? Even though I am checked every year by my agency. Ohh the humanity and the elevated class of preferential treatment....
     
  19. fastbolt

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    Anybody else getting dizzy from the back & forth in this thread ... and I've only skimmed a little of it.

    Okay, civilian law enforcement is just what the term implies. Civilian, not military.

    Does that mean the term civilian can't also be used to create a distinction between non-gov employment and that of various gov service (local, state, fed) involving some type of "enforcement activities"? Sure. Happens all the time.

    The commonly acceptable definitions (plural) from various sources can be picked up and used to further whatever opinion any particular individual may wish to espouse ... as if it will usually help to resolve disagreement. :upeyes:

    I chuckled when I came across this one at some point ... A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military, the police, or a belligerent group.

    A "belligerent group", really? :rofl: Who slipped that one into the mix?

    As far as the original topic?

    Folks can react to any company's actions and political philosophies however they wish.

    If some smaller manufacturers and/or vendors wish to adopt making political statements into their business management models? Not my business. Not my problem, either.

    Not like there's a lack of products of either the same, similar or even better quality and pricing, is there?

    Might be more noteworthy if one of the major, internationally active manufacturers did something of a similar nature.

    Of course, if it were a publically traded company they would have to answer to their board and shareholders, and might incurr legal complications.

    A privately held company might be something else ... but it would be surprising if they adopted some course of conduct in their business model that denied them major sales & repeat business from LE/Mil customers.

    Then there's the gun companies who are owned by corporations located in foreign countries.
     
  20. jay1975

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    RussP, I do not abide by the Webster definition for civilian, I go by the international definition which is simply any person who is not a combatant. The laws of war (Geneva Conventions) do not differentiate police forces from other civilian bodies, they simply break down people into two basic categories; combatants and civilians.
     
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