So firearms companies are screwing cops..

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by FiremanMike, Feb 18, 2013.


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  1. RussP

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    Thank you....

    And those conditions are established by your contract, correct? They are contractual obligations.

    Those in law enforcement have similar 1st Amendment restrictions. In the military, there are grievance processes that do allow you to voice concerns about your leadership, speak out against them, correct? Same holds true in LE. There may be career consequences in either job.

    Military 2nd Amendment restrictions may soon be equaled by NY State. Are there efforts ongoing to change the restrictions in the military?

    The 4th Amendment is suspended.

    But, I asked for the reasons behind these restrictions. You answered that for the 1st Amendment, but not the other two. Why are the restrictions on 2nd Amendment Rights greater in the military?

    Why are 4th Amendment Rights pretty much suspended?

    Thanks.
     

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  2. RussP

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    Good...
    It is the attitude with which you are using the term and the attitude you display while discussing the matter. Perhaps everyone needs to shake their shorts to dislodge some sand.
     

  3. RussP

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    Me, too... :wavey:
     
  4. jay1975

    jay1975 Ultra Master

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    "Why are the restrictions on 2nd Amendment Rights greater in the military?"
    Because we have too many 18 year old's who can't be trusted with their own johnson's let alone weapons. Alcoholism is extremely high in the military and making it harder for Joe to get a hold of guns while drunk is probably a good thing.

    The 4th Amendment limits come from the fact that the military owns everything on post. The housing is not your house. You do not pay for it, the military does. They reserve the right to ensure that you are not trashing the place. The barracks are of common use and therefor, your privacy is nonexistent. The Commander, or his designate, can conduct a check at any time. If the Commander suspects drug use, he will call in the dogs and if he finds something, he has many options on how to punish you that don't involve due process. The Commander is protected by regulations concerning command policy and military authority.
     
  5. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

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    I just wanted to quote this because I think it'll come into play later and I don't really want it lost..
     
  6. To the OP, who do you think will enforce the unconstitutional laws? Well, beside the Federal storm troopers, the LEOs.
     
  7. jay1975

    jay1975 Ultra Master

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    Further on gun restrictions on post, per AR 190-11, if you are allowed to keep your firearm in your quarters (Commander's approval first), it must be locked up and kept separate from ammunition, that is locked up as well. If you want to draw your gun from the arms room, you must have permission from the Commander first. You cannot transport a loaded gun on post and you are only authorized to drive it to the range or hunting grounds on post. Our rules sound more like those in Canada than in America.
     
  8. volsbear

    volsbear IWannaBeSedated
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    I just got an email from J&G saying they will be applying any new gun restrictions to law enforcement agencies that operate within the boundaries of the state or local government that applied them.
     
  9. jay1975

    jay1975 Ultra Master

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    Why? Do you not agree that not letting drunk Soldiers play with guns is a good thing? If not, then you don't know Joe.
     
    #269 jay1975, Feb 20, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  10. BB61

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    Because LEO are no better than American Citizens. If we are restricted then they should be too. Their lives and their families are no more important than mine.
     
  11. BB61

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    Not exactly correct off post officers at least.
     
  12. BB61

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    So. An LEO is no better than me and mine. Almost anybody can come up with reasons why they should be considered special. IMHO, the only special classification is whether you are a US citizen or not. I also don't care if they are required to carry a weapon off duty. I am an officer of the court, I have passed numerous background checks, I have at least as much training as any patrol officer and have shot against SWAT officers and held my own. There is no logical reason for LEO to be considered special over me. This isn't Nazi Germany -- yet (I recently talked with a former neighbor who grew up in the 30s and 40s in Germany before immigrating to the US. He sees many parallels between 1930s Germany and today.)
     
  13. Perhaps - and I'm just spit-balling here - the issue is that you accuse others (me, specifically) of belittling or insulting our military members, and then you turn around and talk about how those same military members shouldn't have access to their own guns because their not trustworthy.

    I think that that might have something to do with saving the quote for posterity.
     
  14. FiremanMike
    Yep laws are laws -apply them equally accross the board or not at all! If I can't own an AR15 why then should a cop? If I can't own a 30 round magazine why should they? :steamed:
    Is there life wurth more then mine?:whistling: We are all Americans and the 2nd applies equally accross the board! No ones right are more precious then anyuone elses!:supergrin:
     
  15. First, I care A LOT about the safety of LEO's. Three of my closest friends and my uncle are LEO's.

    I very much support companies that are taking this stand.

    Let us phrase this another way...

    Should the owners of firearms companies, who believe in our constitutionally protected and God-given rights, be willing to support governments who would deny those rights by providing their enforcers with weaponry to unjustly enforce unconstitutional laws against innocent citizens?

    Do we care which governments (foreign or domestic) manufacturers sell weapons to, as long as those weapons are used for protecting an LEO? There are a few governments in history I would be unwilling to support. What about you?

    I'm NOT saying that if an officer does something unconstitutional, that I no longer care about their safety - not at all. I'm saying that the safety of any one person or group of people is NOT more important that upholding the constitutional rights of everyone else.
     
  16. RussP

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    Do you feel more safe or less safe quartered on post? In other words, are there more violent home invasions resulting in personal and property violations on post?
     
  17. RussP

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    Drinking, doing drugs, it's pervasive in society as a whole. Is it worse in the military? Maybe, and, unfortunately, probably, based on my experience.
    But why does a commander need the exception to the 4th Amendment?
     
  18. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    So, you are okay with the Westobro Baptists protesting soldier funerals then. Afterall, they are just making a politcal statement, right?:upeyes:
     
  19. SPDSNYPR

    SPDSNYPR Zippy's Friend.

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    That's a pretty big jump. Like saying that gun owners think children should die. It's a stupid comment you can't back up, and makes you look like an idiot.
     
  20. txleapd

    txleapd Hook 'Em Up

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    I don't think you realize how many cops buy their own duty weapons (and related accessories). I don't think the contention was about cops buying guns for personal use, as much as being able to get tools for the job.


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