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"Snapped Holster" in car in Florida

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by ParabellumChambered, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. tjshea

    tjshea

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    This only means that you do not need a concealed weapons permit to carry in a car. While I have seen some creative arrest over this issue, either the state attorneys' offices have dismissed the charges or the presiding judge has dismissed the case, and in at least two cases, a law enforcement agency has been successfully sued for a wrongful arrest.
     
  2. douggmc

    douggmc

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    No.


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  3. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    So if a guy has a concealed weapons permit in Florida he can carry the gun in a holster with no safety strap/thumb snap on his person in the car but if he takes the gun out of the holster and tucks it under the front seat not encased he is in violation of the law?
     
  4. douggmc

    douggmc

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    Yes.

    Edit: A clarification/assumption:
    In the first part of your question, I am assuming you have it CONCEALED on your person. Otherwise, that would be a violation also. You can't "open carry" on your person ... inside your car or not.



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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  5. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    If you are saying that a guy with a concealed weapon license commits a violation if he tucks his gun under the front seat is in violation of the law I think you may be missing the part of Chapter 790 that defines a concealed firearm as being concealed from ordinary view on or about a person. There is a list of places that FSS 790.06 does not apply (i.e. school, courthouse) but there does not seem to be any indication of a vehicle in those exceptions.
     
  6. douggmc

    douggmc

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    I'm aware of the "or about" part of it. I just don't consider, an unholstered handgun tucked under the seat in that category.

    I consider a loose handgun tucked under the seat to no longer be concealed on "or about" your person, therefore subject to the requirement for it to be "securely encased" in your private conveyance to be lawful.

    I consider "...or about" a person to be attached in some manner to the person ... as in a backpack, purse, messenger bag, or something similar that is carried by the person.

    So ... I guess the "on about" is open to interpretation.

    Would you pull your otherwise concealed pistol from its holster and tuck it under your seat at a movie theater and consider it "or about" your person and therefore lawful as a CWP holder? A restaurant? The beach? (Let us presume these scenarios could be done out of view of others, so as to preclude the accusation of brandishing it in it).
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  7. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    Your interpretation seems to be somewhat inconsistent with what seems to be fairly accepted, at least here in South Florida, by the people who screen incoming cases for potential prosecution. I have to guess that you have not shared this interpretation with an Assistant State Attorney.


    One of the fundamental differences between a seat in one's automobile and a seat in a restaurant or movie theatre is whether or not others have access to the immediate area. That said while rather foolish to do, my guess is that it would extremely difficult to charge someone with carrying a concealed weapon when the weapon was tucked under the seat at the movie theatre and the suspect had a valid concealed weapon permit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  8. douggmc

    douggmc

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    Does the phrase "on or about your person" as it pertains to your weapon vary depending on where you are physically located?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  9. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    As I said my guess is that very few/no assistant state attorneys here in Florida would even consider charging someone with a valid concealed weapons license with a gun (not securely encased) under the seat in an automobile, nor would they consider it a violation that the gun was concealed under a seat at the movie theatre. I just think the latter is much less responsible. But again, one could always check with intake screeners at the State Attorney's Office.
     
  10. tjshea

    tjshea

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    Tampa
    My guess is that he has not shared his thoughts with any attorney. His interpretation is contrary to how lawyers and judges interpret the law. As I stated earlier, the statute refereeing to caring in a vehicle is an Exception to the need to obtain a CWP. Caring a weapon in the a vehicle is considered in possession of either the driver or an occupant, similar to someone possessing drugs in a car, and can subsequently be charged for possession.

    The reason why I asked if he had case law is that it has been some time since I actually researched this issue and did not know if precedence had changed since 2008.
     
  11. fuzzy03cls

    fuzzy03cls

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    Guys really need to understand the statutes.....
    Definition....
    So my carry method meets that. If it's not on me it is about me next to my seat belt. Hence still concealed per definition.
    There is no statute that says you can not conceal a handgun in a vehicle with a license. Only without a license.

    And now we have the recently passed addition to 790.53
    [SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  12. douggmc

    douggmc

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    The entire discussion revolves around the definition of "or about" your person and what you believe (or the legal system will believe) is "or about" your person.

    My logic in this thread has been as follows:
    1) Your CWP only has relevance if it is on or about your person.
    2) I don't believe, personally, that a loose pistol tucked under a seat of your car as being "on or about your person" ... therefore CWP is not applicable/relevant.
    3) I don't believe, personally, that a pistol in a kydex holster on the seat next to you with or without a "towel thrown over it" to be "on or about your person" either ... therefore CWP is not applicable/relevant.
    4). If the CWP is not relevant/applicable, then it must be "securely encased". Neither a loose pistol under the seat or a pistol in a kydex holster (unless it has a snapping retaining strap or similar mechanism) on the seat next to you are "securely encased".





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  13. fuzzy03cls

    fuzzy03cls

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    Unless you have case law, Your personal feelings mean nothing. I am within the definition of FL law as written in the statutes.
    If a time comes to test that then It will be tested. It's rare I don't conceal my gun on me anyway & in my OP I said on long road trips. So if I ran into the law I would put said handgun in my holster on me or put it in my console as I don't have to have it in a snapped holster and in a lid container as only 1 of them must be met.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  14. douggmc

    douggmc

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    What is the definition of "or about"?
     
  15. clarkz71

    clarkz71

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    I take it as meaning within reach.
     
  16. Bruce M

    Bruce M

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    As suggested, your opinion seems very different from some/many who determine daily whether or not to go forward with criminal charges.
     
  17. ParabellumChambered

    ParabellumChambered

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    From my understanding, if you have CWP, you can carry the gun in your car in whatever fashion you wish, be it on your person or in the cup holder next to you.
     
  18. ranger1968

    ranger1968

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    Actually, in Florida, the glove box or the console are perfectly legal, as both constitute "securely encased; so does a shoe box with the lid on it.
     
  19. Rupert

    Rupert

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    Sounds simple enough. Get yourself a gun rug. Place firearm in holster in gun rug. If you are concerned about not being able to get to it in an emergency simply carry it concealed. I also wonder if carry it in a regular kydex holster and locked glove box is ok.
     
  20. ParabellumChambered

    ParabellumChambered

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    It does not even have to be in a holster if it is in the glove box to be legal. I would put it in a holster though just so that it isn't moving around freely in the glove box.