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Slap around customers in Dallas can get you killed

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Deaf Smith, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. twag4


    Feb 28, 2010
    I just love the witness who said it wasn't worth someone losing his life. When the slapper followed the person outside he made his decision of life or death. He chose poorly.

  2. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL
    The news item seems somewhat sparse as to what happened, but as it is written I would guess the shooter ought to come up with a substantial retainer for a much better than average attorney. I also admit I know little about Texas laws although I am guessing they are probably a bit more generous in use of force than they are here, so he may be in better shape than I am thinking.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  3. Keoking


    Jan 4, 2005
    Rowlett, TX
    The location is in the hood. I definitely wouldn't get out of a car there without being armed. A couple of women were raped at the bus stop outside this convenience store the other week.

    That aside, it is tough to justify shooting a dude for pimp slapping people. Tough, but not impossible. Hopefully we are only getting 10% of the story.

    Hopefully the dead slapper was buck naked and high on bath salts.
  4. Dexters


    May 3, 2004
    Pepper spray ...
  5. racerford


    Apr 22, 2003
    DFW area
    Blows to the head are deadly force. The first shooting by a CHL holder in Texas was a CHL holder shooting an unarmed (without weapons, he did have actual arms) man that was striking him in the head through an open vehicle window. The CHL was "No Bill"ed by the Grand Jury.

    Also the condition of the victim needs to be taken into consideration. My why has multiple fusions and ruptured disks. Blows to the head or being knock to the ground could easily cause serious bodily harm. She or I would would have ample cause under Texas law to use deadly force to protect her from this type of attack.

    Criminals; just because you don't think hitting someone with an open hand (or closed fist) is not deadly force does not mean it is not deadly force to the specific person you are hitting. Strike people in Texas at your own peril.

    I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV. Nor did I stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night. PLease consult your lawyer on proper application of Texas law.... additionally you should review the law yourself, and it is a mandatory part of your CHL training.
  6. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    the more times legal ccw'ers shoot criminals for physically attacking them, the less this will happen. who has a problem with that?
  7. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL
    Yes sometimes. But certainly not always.

    Depending on the disparate level of force prosecutors, juries, and judges may have a problem with that. That in turn has the potential to cause all gun carriers to look bad to some who have a very different agenda than ours.
  8. Stevekozak

    Stevekozak Returning video

    Nov 9, 2008
    I think the point is that a person does not know when a blow to the head could be deadly. If I had an anueysm in my head, and you gave me a good smack on the noggin with your hand, it could cause it to blow and kill me. In that case your friendly pimp slap was deadly force. Hitting ppl in the head is generally a bad idea unless you are really wanting to hurt them. I think it is justifiable.
  9. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Jan 16, 2005
    I, honestly, cannot understand that whole "sanctity of life" thing, like it's "good" anytime anybody lives and "bad" any time anybody dies. That just not true. Sometimes people dying is a good thing and most of the time, at best, no harm is done in the big picture. My own feeling has always been that a life is worth what a person does with it and most people have either no significant worth or are a burden to the rest. When they die, that is a benefit and there is no reason to say otherwise.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  10. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Jan 16, 2005
    I wouldn't count on "blows to the head" being considered per se deadly force. The issue is usually whether the force is "substantially likely to cause death or serious injury" or something similar to that, varying from state to state. I'd bet there isn't a single state that just has a flat "blows to the head are deadly force" rule.
  11. concretefuzzynuts

    concretefuzzynuts Brew Crew

    Dec 27, 2011
    So considering people have ended up in comas, brain damaged and dead due to "blows to the head" I am of the mindset of not taking a chance.

    "oh, this guy is hitting me in the head. I will wait and see how bad it gets before defending myself." BULL#@*#!

    What if I'm an older person than the assaulter? What if I'm 5'6" 160 pounds and he's 6'8" 338 pounds?
  12. Bruce M

    Bruce M

    Jan 3, 2010
    S FL
  13. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    i guess you need to know where you live and socialize.

    if you see somebody acting up, hitting other people in the head ect... and you take a defensive stance and tell them to leave you alone, youre in pretty good shape if you drill the crap bag for hitting you.
  14. ignantmike


    May 14, 2008
    i don't see a problem with what happened to him.....although a good @$$ kick'in would have been awesome to see:tongueout:
  15. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right" defense? :whistling:
  16. cowboy1964


    Sep 4, 2009
    Slapping can turn in to all-out assault in an instant, especially with an unstable or high person. I wasn't there so I can't judge the "totality of the circumstances". I'm sure (well, hope) there is video of this incident.

    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  17. ftw13


    Sep 12, 2009
    Fort Worth,TX
    don't **** with Texas :)
  18. Or as F. Lee Bailey said, "By and by and from time to time you can prove someone needed killing." AKA as the 'good riddance factor'.

    The nutjob at the store was going nuts. The customer feared for his life and thus shot him to stop him. Wither he can articulate a reasonable fear will depend on the grand jury BUT the cops did let him go.

    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  19. TDC20


    Apr 11, 2011
    There seems to be a recurring theme in these stories, which, the way I read them is this...

    Those doing the assaulting may be right about a person not being legally allowed to shoot them if they decide to slap a person around, but once they get shot through the heart for playing stupid games, it really doesn't matter to them whether it was legal or not, does it? Same thing goes for having the right-of-way driving. You can be 100% in the right and still get killed by another driver. Being right and dead is, IMHO, a bad combination.

    I don't disagree with you, but I would add, that the SA and grand juries will have to adopt that outlook before it has a significant impact as a deterrent. Personally, I would like to see more of that. I would like to see the laws relaxed so that any violent crime, including an unprovoked assault, would justify shooting the assailant, taking the interpretation of "threat of death or serious/grave bodily injury" out of the the prosecutor's and/or a juror's opinion. It's too easy for a Monday morning QB to make that judgement in their safe little world. People who wish to commit violent crimes against innocents should not have the protection of the law to do so.