Short Leade SA1911

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by WiskyT, Jan 10, 2013.


  1. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

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    If it helps, I load 230 XTP's and cast bullets from lee mold (230 tc) to 1.210". Works in my Brown, my Springfield TRP, my friend's Wilson and his Colt Rail Gun.


    :dunno:


    Of course I could be wrong, but I thought all SA was Imbel steel. The NM designation basically just indicated that all of the fitting was done in the US.
     

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  2. njl

    njl

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    If there's a line forming to use the reamer, I might be interested in giving it a try. Is it really as easy as just lubing the chamber with the cutting oil, inserting the reamer, and slowly hand turning the tool (or barrel) to take a little off the inside of the barrel just forward of end of the chamber?
     

  3. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    I agree, they should, but I don't think they will. What is the COAL of the 230 TAP if you don't mind measuring for me? If it's over 1.180", it won't fit.
     
  4. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Yeah, but what do Ed brown and Sam Colt know about building 1911's?












    :supergrin:



    There is no way 1.210" is going to fit with a 230XTP, it won't even be close. I tried it as I made my dummy round. I started too long and kept sneaking the bullet in until it fit, just barely, at 1.180". It would probably need to be 1.170" to be 100% reliable under field conditions.
     
  5. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Aren't Karhrs, at least in other calibers, known for having short leades also?
     

  6. I'm new to Kahrs, but I'm starting to hear more about the problem.
     

  7. Same thing with my trigger. 4lbs is about as light as I will go. I am running the MTGs short.

    Here's the 1911. There's 2 versions mil spec and GI. IIRC the mil spec has the lowered ejection port and a better lead in the barrel I do have the mill spec.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Yeah it doesn't see the gold dots, I just ran a few for function testing. I use the target load from the label above.

    Actually really getting serious about maybe casting. Can't deal with the price and no availability any more. Just time and finding lead are the issue.


    Some where I have the grips I bought and never put on. They are the GI grips marked US.

    I never had an issue with grip bushings. Common sense don't go crazy tightening things. Some guys use small o rings under the screws or grips like lock washers to keep em tight. I just snug em once in a while when I wipe the gun down in and out of the safe.
     
  8. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    Fed AE 230 ball=1.267 OAL--sits .012 below flush

    Hornandy custom 200XTP 1.221 OAL---sits .008 below flush.

    Hornandy TAP 230XTP 1.210---sits .010 below flush.

    The 230 shocked me Bit the shorter oal,I weighed them to be sure.
    The bal and XTP230's I could not push into chamber and get to stick at all,Tried a handful of both.
    The 200XTP's I could get to stick about 70% of a handfull of rounds:dunno:

    All factory loaded.
     
    #28 Steel Head, Jan 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  9. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Mine was before they had the GI and MilSpec. They had only one. I think the ejection port is lowered, judging by pics online, but I know it's not flared. I took a pic of it with my phone, but it's a Samsung and I need a Samsung cord to load them in the computer (it's not a smart phone). The cord is in my drawer. Actually, it was in my drawer before the guy who stole my sock from the dryer moved it. The wife is at work, she'll know where it is and I can post pics tomorrow.

    It's kind of in-between the GI and MS. It doesn't have every feature of the MS, but it has better sights than the GI. It has some real nice checkered grips on it with no logos and that greenish parkerizing.
     
  10. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Thanks for running all of that down. There is no way the 230 XTP's would chamber at that length. The others I'm not sure about.
     
  11. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    I have a box of WinUSA from about the same time as when I got the gun. While I can push then in the chamber, it takes a fair amount of thumbnail to pull them back out. I think the slide would close on them, but it shouldn't be that tight.
     
  12. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    No,it's not

    Looking into the chamber can you see a taper(the leade)cut into the rifling at all?
    Mine for no better words to describe it is a square.
    The taper is cut as deep at the rifling bands are wide.
     
  13. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    I can see clearly into the area of the chamber in question and it looks like there simply isn't any leade. Certainly not the type that you describe yours as having.
     
  14. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    It's not going to win any Picture of The Year awards but you can clearly see the leade from the chamber step to rifling.

    This is from a Springfield RO.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Wow! You da man! I was thinking of taking a macro shot of mine and I was wondering if it would turn out well. Now I don't have to:supergrin:

    Mine looks just like yours, except the rifling goes all the way to the headspace shoulder. There is no leade. All of that nice taper you have leading to the rifling doesn't exist. It just starts, and right at the end of the chamber itself where cartridge case ends.

    I wonder if the leade is cut in a different step from the rest of the chamber cutting and they forgot to do it? The chamber itself looks to be nicely done, not that I'm an expert. So if the leade is cut with the reamer that does the rest of the chamber, I don't see how the leade wouldn't have been cut at the same time. Maybe SA thinks this is the way the chamber should be done, or at least they did 20 years ago?

    Either way, the gun is going to the smith. I almost can't wait until Thursday.
     
  16. Steel Head

    Steel Head Tactical Cat

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    Glad it helped:wavey:
    I'm not sure how the leade is cut.
    I'm curious now and will search out what I can.
    I wonder how the lack of leade affects accuracy and pressure :dunno:
     
  17. I expect a mass produced barrel will have the chamber and leade cut in one pass with a reamer ground to shape.

    The SAAMI specification is for a 2 deg 35 min taper from the chamber mouth into the rifling with no cylindrical throat as commonly seen in rifle chambers.

    A chamber without that tapered leade is incomplete and incorrect.
    You can accomodate it by seating all the bearing surface down in the case but might see leading or coppering as the bullet slams into the abrupt start of the rifling.

    A real accurizing gunsmith will cut the leade and maybe even a throat* separately, either to suit the customer's ammo, or he will recommend ammunition.

    *"Throating" a 1911 has come to mean grinding on the other end of the chamber for the purpose of feeding odd bullet shapes. Those old time accurizing gunsmiths would refer to that as "ramping" because they were "throating" the front of the chamber for a good entry into the rifling.
     
    #37 Jim Watson, Jan 13, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  18. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Boy, you aint kidding. I have a little leading just at the beginning of the rifling as you will see in the pics.

    After a little reading on Stephen A. Camp's sight, I found that I probably have a two piece barrel. I don't know how that effects the reaming process. The seam is obvious on the outside of the barrel, but not the inside where it counts, so I can't tell where one piece ends and the other begins inside the chamber.
     
  19. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Here is the chamber. After looking at it under a magnifying glass, and taking this super-macro picture, nothing looks right about it at all with regards to the leade.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

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    Here is the gun and a dummy round with the 230XTP loaded so it will fit the gun. I blotted out the last three digits of the SN, so don't think it's some kind of super-low number gun:supergrin:

    Am I correct on the lowering of the ejection port?

    [​IMG]
     

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