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Shooting all over the place...

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Vitals, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Vitals


    Aug 1, 2012
    I finally put some decent rounds through my G20 SF. Underwood TMJ 180gr. I am new to shooting 10mm and what I am finding is highly inconsistent groups if you could even call them that. I am all over the target. I was hoping some of you could give me some pointers on shooting this beastly round? I need to be more accurate

  2. B.Reid


    Jun 20, 2005
    Stop flinching.

  3. bustedknee

    bustedknee Curmudgeon

    Aug 1, 2001
    Wythe County, VA
    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Now say it with me....

    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Say it before each shot.
    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    I would win every GSSF match I entered if it wasn't for these 2 things.
    Sight picture!
    Trigger control!

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  4. Sit at a bench, resting your gun on sandbags, to find out how accurate you can make your shots.

    That will give you a reference while later standing up and shooting with no rest :)
  5. Vitals


    Aug 1, 2012
    Ya I've noticed some guys doing that at the range I think I'll give that a shot. Thanks guys much appreciated
  6. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer

    Aug 24, 2011
    Slow down. run the basics of a slow trigger pull. Make sure your grip is correct, it should be like holding an egg firmly but not enough to break it. get your thumbs in the right place and make sure you have enough finger to reach the trigger and still have mechanical advantage. the large frame can be a bit of a challenge until you practice with it.

    Try keeping your grip firm but relaxing your arms and shoulders. you will induce less tension that way and fatigue slower.

    Take every shot by the steps with BRASS
    aim (sight alignment)
    sight picture
    squeeze (the trigger slowly)

    dont rush it. Do this every single shot for about a couple hundred rounds. you will feel yourself getting better at it.

    You can also do a bunch of dry fire work at home. work on your grip and all the same steps, but watch for flinching and bobbling and tension.
  7. alwaysshootin


    Nov 14, 2005
    Another technique that works, is dry firing. It won't hurt the glock, and is cheap to do. Make sure your firearm, and magazine are empty, of course first of all. Aim at something small, and lightly squeeze the trigger making sure the front sight doesn't move off small target. This will develop trigger control, and show you what flinching is. Remember front sight needs to stay on target all the way through pulling the trigger.

    This technique takes total concentration, and, will show you what you are doing wrong.
  8. oceanbob


    Jun 26, 2010
    All of the above and don't hang on so tight. If you are starting to tremble while holding the weapon in choke-grip, you're going backwards.

    One thing that 'might' help is a 4 pound connector. (a lighter trigger). Less effort might relax that choke-grip you have. However, a light trigger will require better trigger control...if you're holding the weapon too tight with a light trigger sometimes the recoil alone will pop another round. Something to think about.

    Underwood is superior hot ammo. Perhaps run some .40 range ammo for less recoil and better technique..?

    Good luck.:supergrin:
  9. I was a 45 acp 1911 guy for years. I got into the 10mm about a year or so ago. Now i was a dam decent shot with my 1911 but the glock frame had been given me issues for some time. I was shooting low left about 7 o'clock and when i would try to compensate i would loose grouping.

    well i finally started hitting ragged holes within the last couple of weeks.

    I agree with what most everyone has said but can't stress the grip enough. try to let the gun do the work.

    the comment about grip like your squeezing an egg but not hard enough to break it is a good description.

    I was gripping too tight and was working against the gun trying to control the recoil rather than work with it.

    Believe me the recoil actually feels softer now.

    good trigger control and lighten up on the grip and you will see everything tighten up.

    I have a hard head and it took me way too long to get this grip down but man what a difference. Now instead of feeling frustrated at my grouping i have a ear to ear grin like i used to with the 1911.

    Oh yeah try the the lighter loads d if need be get the 40 conversion barrel to practice. Although i did notice that my wild grouping got worse with the stronger 10mm loads until i just gave up a on trying to over power the recoil. work with it and you will even get faster at you're follow up shots.

    Hope this helps.
  10. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    let an experienced shooter give it a try....
  11. G29SFWTF


    Aug 3, 2012
    I agree with the fundamentals that others have posted like dry firing and practice trigger control.

    Do you have an overtravel stop? I think this is the best bang for your buck (no pun intended) that you can add for accuracy. I just got the Vanek adjustable for my G19 and it works well for $25. I have the Ghost rocket 3.5 connector in my G29SF and got lucky with grinding just the perfect amount off the stop tab.

    I also have a reduced power plunger spring and an extra power trigger spring in my G29, $13 shipped from Wolff. I think the benefit is slight with these but it couldn't hurt.

    Also the 25 cent trigger job (polishing) if you haven't done that yet.

    This are relatively cheap things you can do. I like heavy guide rods too because they seem to help keep the muzzle from moving during the trigger break, but that's more $$.

    Are you seeing the same inaccuracy with downloaded factory ammo? Maybe try some weak ~1050fps or so ammo for comparison.

    What distance are you shooting?

    Are all the bullet holes round, or are some of them a keyhole pattern which could indicate tumbling.
  12. attrapereves


    Sep 11, 2011
    I have the same problem with hot 10mm loads. I guess it's the recoil that causes flinching and hand stress. I am getting much better though. Practice, practice, practice.
  13. All good advice, I'd just like to add finger position on the trigger. Find a spot where the sights don't move when dry firing. Then add ammo.

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  14. nickE10mm

    nickE10mm F.S.F.O.S.

    Apr 13, 2004
    Wichita, KS

    Do this...

    First, start with light loads for all of this practice.
    Second, load a 5 or 7 rounds in a mag and use sandbags to rest the pistol.
    Third, start this exercise at 7-10y, NO FURTHER!
    Fourth, focus on moving your trigger finger rearward WITHOUT milking the grip of the pistol.

    FRONT SIGHT!!!!!!!!, SQUEEEEEZE, CONTINUE REARWARD TRIGGER MOTION EVEN THROUGH RECOIL (we call this FOLLOW THRU) and make sure the trigger breaking is a bit of a surprise in that you're focusing so much on the front sight that you aren't thinking about the BANG. Also, DO NOT FIGHT RECOIL. LET IT HIT YA!

    After getting rid of your flinching issues and when you can make ONE HOLE 7y groups, move on to 15y, then to 20y.... Once you've got good groups at the farthest distance you need, move to a stronger load.
  15. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    Great advice here.

    Sometimes, like with golf or anything, bad habits can creep in and groups get a bit worse than desired.

    I use somewhat of a similar strategy to figure out what is up - except I don't use a rest. Doing so usually calls attention to what I am doing wrong and so I can fix it.

    Shooting at a 7 foot target is very beneficial. I took my brother & girlfriend shooting recently. She was a new shooter. I set her up about 7 yards from the IDPA target and she gave me a look like, "Why so close?" Her first two shots completely missed the target and hit the top of the berm. That is when we talked about front sight, trigger control, and things got better.
  16. TDC20


    Apr 11, 2011
    All good advice posted here.

    I would say your problem is flinching, or anticipating the recoil. This causes you to try to "pull" the trigger in a quick, jerky motion, and/or push forward with the pistol at the same time. That is a terrible technique it you want to hit anything! Long before I had a 10mm, I had a 44mag, and it took me about 20 years to learn how to shoot that revolver correctly, even though I knew the reason was flinching. Usually my first shot at a range session was right on target, and then I was lucky to be on paper with the rest.

    Nothing anyone tells you is going to fix a shooting flinch, since the answer lies in your mind. What you have to do is to become comfortable with the recoil so that you're not anticipating it in a fearful way, like pain, or that you're afraid the gun will fly out of your hand, or whatever.

    Sometimes gripping the pistol too tightly can make recoil uncomfortable. A firm grip, like a handshake, is all you should need, not a death grip. The death grip will make the felt recoil sharper. Also, you have to allow the pistol to recoil a little bit. Don't try too hard to hold the muzzle down and on target during recoil. You kind of have to go with the recoil and absorb it, instead of fighting it to keep it from happening. It's going to happen, fighting it makes it worse.

    What I had to do is, in my mind, get to a point where I was comfortable enough to actually enjoy the recoil, so I felt like I wanted the gun to jump as I was aligning the sights and working the trigger. It may sound crazy, but until you are 100% comfortable with the recoil, you can never achieve the accuracy potential of your shooting ability.

    Next time you are at the range, try this exercise. You wear good eye protection, right? So there's no reason to close your eyes or even blink. Before you do your regular target shooting, run a magazine first like this. Instead of focusing and concentrating on sight alignment, focus on your grip and keeping your eyes open. Start like you normally start slow fire, using a slow, smooth trigger pull. Lighten up while firing each shot until the recoil isn't so sharp and your grip is comfortable during recoil. Don't try to hold the muzzle down on target during recoil, instead, let it rise a little. If you soften your grip too much, you may get some jams or ftf's from "limp wristing", or the trigger guard may start rapping your trigger finger. That's too soft on your grip. During the exercise, focus on keeping both eyes open when the pistol fires. It's very important that you keep your eyes open. Did you watch the sight picture disappear when the gun fires? If not, you still need work on this exercise. What this is doing is making you comfortable with recoil and conditioning your mind not to fear it. When you don't fear, you don't anticipate recoil in a negative way. And when you don't anticipate recoil in a negative way, you will start hitting where your sights are aligned. Then you can start working on the finer techniques of shooting, like trigger control, grip consistency, sight picture, breathing, body/shooting position, etc. All of these other things are important, but until you have mastered recoil and the flinch response, you won't see a lot of improvement, even if you were somehow able to perfect everything else.

    I hope this helps, and let us know how it goes.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012