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SFPD Breathalyzer Error Puts Hundreds Of DUI Convictions In Doubt

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by pipedreams, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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  2. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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  3. elsolo

    elsolo

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    Did the PD miss evidence collection 101
     
  4. SixDemonBag

    SixDemonBag

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    They missed Police Work 101.

    That city wants social workers, not cops.
     
  5. Ohio Cop

    Ohio Cop

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    Are these simply PBTs or the actual breathalyzers that haven't been calibrated? Couldn't figure that out from the article.
     
  6. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

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    Agree. Looks most like PBT (roadside field sobriety screening test), not what most places consider/call a true "breathalyzer/intoxylizer" test.
     
  7. CAcop

    CAcop

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    In my county that device in the video can only be used in court to say that "it showed the prescence of alcohol." It will give you a number but they merely consider it to be one of the field sobriety exercises. People can refuse to take them. They are PAS (preliminary alcohol screening) devices. We calibrate them once a week.

    Now there are EPAS devices (evidentiary preliminary screening). They are the ones where we can go into court and state the number they blew. It also prints out a paper copy and part of the calibration also downloads the data onto Cal DOJ's servers. Tey are calibrated once a month IIRC.

    I actually have no idea why the cases would be thrown out in court due to the fact the PAS device is merely one of many tests officers conduct in the field to determine if an arrest was warranted. I can see if the EPAS was not calibrated but those are from the DOJ.

    It is SF however and they do things very differently.
     
  8. *ASH*

    *ASH* in hell everyone loves popcorn

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl


    that and a rash of videos proclaiming " im the only one professional enough to use... "
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  9. holesinpaper

    holesinpaper

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    Really? You can see no reasons?


    • Fraud.
    • Dereliction of duty in a matter directly related to a case.
    • Results were used to strong arm plea deals -- but are really based on a lie.
    • False evidence used in court.
    • Etc.
     
  10. NG VI

    NG VI

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    Add false probable cause or however it would be described as well. Without the initial breath machine, they would have never been arrested in the first place, so if it wasn't calibrated, they should have never been used and therefore never been arrested.

    I wonder how the city plans on compensating these people for their wrongful arrests, imprisonments, and the massive (wrongful) consequences and side penalties that follow people for years after a DUI?
     
  11. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Reread my post. Actully watch the video. Read. Listen. Learn.

    Now what part of the PAS is not used except to say in court, "there was alcohol present" and to be one of many FSEs do you not understand. It is the same as gaze nystagmus, line walk, finger count, one leg stand, etc. The PAS can be refused. This was the device shown in the video. This was the device the defense attorney refer to as reading much higher than the later test.

    The later test was either blood or EPAS. EPAS can be testified to in a court of law as the the number it displayed and recorded. PArt of the reason why the PAS cannot be used in the same way is that it does not record the number. The EPAS cannot be refused unlike the PAS device. The EPAS is given after the arrest.

    The only hope the defense has is that the probable cause for the arrest is possibly shot. I say possibly because if the arrestee refused the PAS he can still go to jail if he did poorly on the FSEs. As a vetran officer asked me a dozen years ago about the PAS, "What do you think we did all thise years ago when we didn't have a PAS?" That got me to thinking. Why run through the FSEs with little care and use the PAS as a crutch. Why not spend more time on the FSEs and if they refuse you can still arrest them?
     
  12. CAcop

    CAcop

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    Like I said before the device in the video is a PAS. It can be refused. Even if refused you can make an arrest. Look up field sobriety exercises. Some places still call them tests.

    Riddle me this. How did they make arrests for DUI before PAS devices?

    Your "no PC" doesn't fly.
     
  13. CAcop

    CAcop

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    I think the SF DA just doesn't want to go to trial on all thse cases because every clown will think they will be able to throw the cases out. So they will have to do a whole bunch of work when they can toss the cases. Besdies the DMV probably hit them with the minimum 3 month suspension of their DL. The only thing missing are the fines the DA collects. No one actually gets jail time, at least for first time offenses. Hell, you actually have to comitt felony DUI for jail time. Five convictions or an injury to another in a crash.
     
  14. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    more apology for LEO screwups.

    after the break, our junior weatherman dave will jump off the building to check to see if gravity is still working. :rofl:
     
  15. CAcop

    CAcop

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    How many DUI arrests hve you made in the state of California?
     
  16. HiddenEyes

    HiddenEyes It can be done

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    Might be nothing more than defense attorneys doing a little marketing. They love people trying to fight DUI, it is a huge cash crop for them. If they can get an article like this printed then a whole bunch of people will part with the cash for a trial. Few days in court, canned show for the jury, client loses anyway, attorney walks away tens of thousands richer.

    I might be biased against defense attorneys. :supergrin:



    Mr. HE:cool:
     
  17. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    zero.

    of course, that has nothing to do with anything, except for the "I'm the expert, you don't know what you're talking about", "You've never put your life on the line so shut up" and "You wish you could do what I do but could never cut it, so you criticize instead" arguments to follow.

    did I miss any? california cop will be along shortly to rectify that, by applying the appropriate insults and accusations of logical fallacies and straw arguments that will never, ever, be substantiated.

    so I guess the news item is completely bogus, then? is that what you're saying?

    all those convictions really aren't in trouble, because all those police did their job, and did them well, and the machine used is just a tertiary aid to the real police work and not a major part of the evidence for conviction?

    how about you shoot an email over to SFPD and let them know... maybe they'll give ya a medal. :rofl:
     
  18. Ohio Cop

    Ohio Cop

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    The only issue I can see is the dereliction of duty on the officer's part whose task it was to calibrate and ensure the proper certification of the PBT devices. Then again, toss out the PBT evidence, we don't use them here but I wouldn't have an issue having it tossed if this were the circumstance. I have whatever 'vehicle in motion' or traffic violation indicators for the stop. The subject's demeanor 'glassy, bloodshot eyes, an inability to comprehend questioning, inability to stand without using the vehicle as support, failure of SFST's, an open container(s) in the vehicle, admission of consumption of alcohol etc. While the PBT's and intoxylizer results PROVE there was consumption of alcohol that took place prior, the above listed are indicators of intoxication.

    Furthermore, was this an ongoing issue? Did the officer completely ignore his task and forge the documents or is this just a way, as previously noted, for a defense attorney to open up a can of worms?

    No insults necessary.
     
  19. ray9898

    ray9898

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    So is this the roadside box or the official state test at the station?
     
  20. rockapede

    rockapede

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    I have never used a PBT to arrest a drunk....did I have probably cause?

    All in all, this is a problem and somebody needs to get their butt chewed/disciplined. It may or may not have any real effect on cases though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
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