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Series 70 vs series 80?

Discussion in '1911 Forums' started by ctfireman, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. ctfireman

    ctfireman

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    What's the difference? I searched but couldn't find an answer. I thought they were colt model numbers!!!
     
  2. glock_19guy1983

    glock_19guy1983

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    dixie
    Series 70 has a collet bushing and no firing pin safety. Series 80 is less desireable and has a firing pin safety
     


  3. ctfireman

    ctfireman

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    A 1911 with a firing pin safety? Hmmm........weird.
     
  4. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Yeah, quite a few have them, not just Colt.

    Sig, S&W, Para, and some others also use this design.

    Kimber uses a totally different type of FP safety and is activated by the grip safety.
     
  5. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    S&W firing pin obstruction works off the grip safety.
    Not the same linkage as the Kimber but not at all like the trigger actuated block of Colt, PO, SS, and Taurus.

    While Series 70 is a Colt trademark, the Internet Evolution of the English Language has led it to be used to mean "lacking a firing pin block" in any brand. Ick.
     
  6. bac1023

    bac1023

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    True. But the appearance and placement is very similar to the series 80 Colt design.

    Smith did this because some people complained theat the series 80 design affected the feel of the trigger.
     
  7. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Like I said before, Colt pioneered many things associated with the 1911. Its their design, but the reality is that its the widely accepted term that people use for any brand.
     
  8. skipsan

    skipsan

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    The Colt fp safety used on the 80-Series has a mechanical link connected to to the trigger mechanism that requires that the trigger be pulled, before the firing pin is free to impact the primer. No action is required on the part of the shooter to activate the safety--just pull the trigger. The firearm cannot fire if dropped on the muzzle because the firing pin is mechanically locked in place. Theoretically, a Series 70 pistol dropped on its nose could fire due to the momentum of the fp overcoming the resistance of the fp return spring, and impacting the primer. California performs this drop test on all pistols sold in the state and the Series 70 is not approved, while the Series 80 is. Other manufacturers use different techniques to accomplish the same thing as the Series 80 mechanism without the accompnaying mechanical complications.

    Purists argue that the linkage has a negative impact on the trigger-pull quality of the 80 Series. Whether it does or not, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure 95% or more of us shooters wouldn't know it was there provided it was functioning properly. Its presence does complicated diassembly as there are some small parts and springs that must be accomodated.
     
  9. Glockdude1

    Glockdude1 Federal Member CLM

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    Swartz safety system.
    [​IMG]

    The Kimber system.
    [​IMG]

    I am glad my Springfield does NOT have such a system.

    :cool:
     
  10. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Actually, the top illustration is the Series 80.

    The Swartz system is the bottom illustration that Kimber pretty much uses.
     
  11. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Me too.

    Springfield's crutch is that goofy lock they stick in their main spring housings. :tongueout:

    That bothers me as much as the firing pin safeties, actually. :sigh:
     
  12. Glockdude1

    Glockdude1 Federal Member CLM

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    My Springfield does have the lock. I engaged it the first day I bought the pistol. I wanted to know if it worked. I have never used it since.

    :cool:
     
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    Just because different makes use the same system does not mean the parts are interchangeable. There have been some posts by Taurus owners who found that out. The groove in a Taurus' firing pin is not in the same location as a real Colt Series 80.

    Another unfortunate departure from the basic design is the use of odd firing pins.
    Several brands use .38 Super firing pins in .45 ACP, which makes sense if you are a manufacturer and want to reduce the number of different parts in inventory, but it can be a surprise to the customer.
    Not to mention Springfield which uses an odd size not found in other makes of any caliber. (They have their own front sight tenon width, too.) There was a gunsmith who said nothing fit on a Springfield because it was "METRIC". Which does not make sense to me or my gunsmith who has put a lot of US inch parts in Springfield guns.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    Appearance is not everything. It won't work in buying replacement parts.

    So did Kimber.

    There is also the matter of patent rights. Other makers either had to use a different design or wait for the Colt Series 80 patent to expire, pay royalties, or risk infringement lawsuits. I think one maker went the last way and got away with it because the court case would have lasted longer than the remainder of patent coverage.

    Does that make Glock a Series 80? It has a firing pin block actuated by the trigger linkage.
     
  15. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Good Lord Jim. :upeyes:

    I'm not arguing the fact that it was a Colt design or a Colt patent. Believe me, whenever anyone says "series 80", I think of Colt right away, not any other company.

    That's not going to change the fact that others now use the design or similarities of the design and are widely referred to and thought of as series 80 guns. I didn't start that.

    Unfortunately, like it or not, I don't see the terminology changing. Hell, even magazine writers use the term "series 80" when talking about guns other than Colt and they write about 1911s for a living.

    With all due respect, why is it such a big deal to you? Did you come up with the design? :dunno:

    Its not going to change.







    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  16. bac1023

    bac1023

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    I don't use it either.

    I just don't like extra safeties and/or locks on a gun that differ from the original design.

    None of this stuff stops me from buying the above mentioned 1911s though. :)
     
  17. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

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    In the first place, I have elected to make it a big deal because of the common Internet Expert Tutorials we get about such jargon as clip vs magazine. I just get a kick out of ranting about less well known blunders.

    In the second place, it can lead to confusion and malfunction. Like the guy with the "Series 80" Taurus who found that a Colt spec firing pin would not fit his knockoff.
     
  18. Hokie1911

    Hokie1911 >

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    Internet Expert Tutorials have taught me to carry Cocked & Unlocked with a full clip, and to move out of cover, stop...drop...roll, then fire. What's wrong with that? :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  19. bac1023

    bac1023

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    Gotcha :)
     
  20. brzusa.1911

    brzusa.1911

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    The fpb (series 80, Kimber's, S&W, ...) was introduced mainly by the production manufacturers to make guns easier to pass CA, MA...approved lists. Lots of people have no problems with it, I don't like it and don't want it on my guns. To the best of my knowledge none of the semi-custom (Les Baers, EB, Wilson, NH, ...) and the majority of the custom manufacturers choose to not to use them. Some people argue the reason some 1911 makers choose not to use them is for cutting costs, but I don't think that any of these makers selling these high end 1911s with a high price tag are interested in reducing costs by not installing a fpb, I do believe there must be a good reason these great gunsmiths choose not to use fbp
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010