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Second Coming...

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by FifthFreedom, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    Since, ( no big surprise) the Vic Hays' thread got locked before we could get to the truth from the Prophets concerning how our Messiah is foretold to die and then return. I figure why not start a New thread on it?
    Can someone tell me from the actual Tanach where it states that Messiah will come to earth, die, and then come back and "finish" all he was originally supposed to do sometime during "round two" thousands of years later?
     
  2. Dexters

    Dexters

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  3. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    OK, but that doesn't really answer my question except to say xtians believe.....(fill in the blank)

    How about something specific that can hold up to scrutiny besides the "battle of the links"

    What I do find interesting ( and you should to) is when the site says:

    The literal translation of the word, messiah (moshiach), is “anointed,” which refers to a ritual of consecrating someone or something by putting holy oil upon it.[1 Sam. 10:1-2] It is used throughout the Jewish Bible in reference to a wide variety of individuals and objects; for example, a Jewish king,[1 Kings 1:39] Jewish priests,[Lev. 4:3] and prophets,[Isa. 61:1] the Jewish Temple and its utensils,[Ex. 40:9-11] unleavened bread,[Num. 6:15] and a non-Jewish king (Cyrus king of Persia).[Isa. 45:1]
     
  4. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    FF

    My understanding is that Messiah, Christ, and the Anointed one are pretty much the same meaning.

    We see the holy oil as symbolic of the Holy Spirit.

    When Jesus began His ministry He was Anointed with the Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 3:16-17 When he had been baptised, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying. "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    Jesus would have been of age, about 30 years old according to the priestly type. This was in 27 AD at the 69th week of the 70 weeks prophecy. He was killed after 3 and I/2 years of ministry which would be the middle of the week. In 34 AD His followers were persecuted so much that they went everywhere spreading the Gospel. This would have fulfilled the 70th week.

    Daniel 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.................................................................................

    He was sacrificed in the middle of the 70th week
     
  5. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    Problem is, your reference to Daniel 9:27 has already been addressed in very great detail. see my link in my signature.

    "annointed" with the "holy spirit" also is an alien concept in the tanach.
    Also, from the wiki site that our mutual friend was so nice to post:

    To the Jew, the Messiah has a most important mission, namely to bring the world back to G-d, and make it a place of peace, justice and harmony. When Jesus failed to accomplish this, the early Christians had to radically alter the very concept of the Messiah. This, in turn, transformed Christianity from another Jewish Messianic sect into a religion that is quite alien to many basic Jewish teachings.[16]

    So let's get back to the question
     
  6. achysklic

    achysklic

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    I see some people will never change, our buddy FF whom I will refer to from here on as C B will always continue to side step questions.
     
  7. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    Do you ever make mistakes?

    I noticed that the Spirit of God came upon Saul for example, not that he was anointed though. Foreign or not do not dismiss it as a possiblity.

    God bless you.:angel:
     
  8. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    Actually, his question was answered. It is MY question that I want answered. I atarted this thread asking for proof from the Nach and he cites NT :upeyes:

    BTW what question did he ask?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  9. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    David referred to Saul more than once as "The Annointed one of Hashem". Yes in fact he was anointed, perhaps you wanna read as to how this was done. It is the way a king is properly anointed.
     
  10. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    Yes, I know the story of Samuel anointing Saul king and later the son of Jesse. The Son of God, however , was anointed with the real thing, the Holy Spirit.

    Yes Jesus is coming back. The whole thing including the resurrection is in Daniel 12:1-2
     
  11. Ogreon

    Ogreon unlisted

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    I thought that I had read somewhere that the United Council of Really Cool Rabbis had declared Wikipedia to be scripture...

    For anyone interested in a book that somewhat touches upon this topic...
    The Christian and the Pharisee by Dr. R.T. Kendall and Rabbi David Rosen was interesting.

    Kendall is a Calvinist, so his side of the letters don't represent what many other denominations would say (Catholics, Orthodox, etc.). I don't know enough to give a doctrinal label to Rosen.
     
  12. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    Your problem is, there is no such concept of "anointing with the "holy spirit" in the Great Prophets so unless I would choose to think somehow the Nach was fiction, I have to therefore reject it. Even Moses wasn't anointed with any holy spirit and what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway.

    Daniel 12:1,2 say nothing about the Messiah nor of him "dying and returning" that's smoke and mirrors you're trying to use. ( see my other response in the other thread.)
     
  13. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    1. The Holy Spirit is the one who dwells with us personally as much as we will allow. The Great Prophets do mention Him, but no person was annointed with the Holy Spirit like Jesus. Jesus is unique.

    Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    He dwells with me even though I have nothing and have done nothing to deserve Him.

    2. Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking about Michael, which is Jesus warrior name returning and the resurrection of the dead.

    God bless you
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  14. Paul7

    Paul7

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    'Oh, that all the Lord's people were prophets and that the Lord would put His Spirit upon them!' (Num. 11:29). What Moses prayed for became a prophecy in the words of the prophet Joel, who said that in the latter days that's exactly what would happen. And on the day of Pentecost it did happen. The apostle Peter said that it was about this that Joel was writing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
  15. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    What exactly do you think this has to do with anointing??
    Some of G-d's spirit of prophecy rested on the 70 elders. Where does it claim "anointed?" this is classic trying to read more into the scripture than what it says.

    This is another example of how if Paul claimed this happened on Pentecost, he clearly didn't understand the Bible. Do you see now why I don;t take the NT seriously>??

    Joel 3:1 is clear,,G-d will pour out his spirit on ALL FLESH From the sons and daughters to slaves....ALL Flesh. Not a small handful of "apostles". This clearly did NOT happen at "pentecost"

    plus if we followed your way of thinking and these people were in fact "anointed with the holy spirit" as you claim jsus was, then what makes him any more special than any of them?
     
  16. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    OH man this is rich :rofl:
    Now Michael is jsus' "warrior name????"
    oy vey!
    Are you actually keeping a straight face when you make these claims?

    OK, so where does it say Michael died and was resurrected?
     
  17. achysklic

    achysklic

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    Yeah Adventist think Michael and Jesus were one and the same....even though scripture clearly proves this is not so..

    Just another crazy thing Ellen White their goddess made up.


    If you study Rev.2:20 you might say this could be Ellen White

    Rev.2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


    Funny thing is Most ADVENTIST are trinitarians which means Jesus is God,

    Now Michael's name means who is like God . See how confused they are, they don't have a clue if Jesus is God or if He is like God...........lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  18. GreenDrake

    GreenDrake Rip Lips

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    When the Flying Spaghetti Monster appears, you will know.
     
  19. FifthFreedom

    FifthFreedom

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    Wow, yeah I gotta admit I never heard this one before. I am not too familiar with cults and their beliefs.
     
  20. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays

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    Water and oil are both symbolic of the Holy Spirit

    For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And my blessing on your offspring; They will spring up among the grass. Like willows by the watercourses. One will say, "I am the Lord's; Another will call himself by the name of Jacob; Another will write with his hand, The Lord's, And name himself by the name of Israel.

    Blessings on you Paul 7. It is no wonder that Jesus said you must be born again. Born of the watere and of the Spirit. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.